What is non duality?

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

If we're speaking about attention there's not enough bandwidth.

There are a number of unconscious aspects 'running in the background' that have a part to play in the creation of your reality. One is the Shadow Self, where all those 'bad things' that perhaps you couldn't or wouldn't resolve properly are stuffed out of the way. There is cognitive dissonance, which is also known as the 'lock on, lock out' principle and what happens is that when you lock on to one thing you lock out everything else. People lock out what is contrary to their beliefs, for instance. Then there's cognitive behaviour or what is known as Right Thinking in the Eightfold Path, re-writing the definition of the ego to call it Spirituality yet ignoring Ahamkara is not Right Thinking, it's destructive cognitive behaviour.

Meditation alters the frequency of the brainwaves, meditators have been hooked up to scanners and the like and it's been measured. What makes the difference is how one's brain is wired. If your Swami needs to make so much meditative effort to reach that state then I'd guess that's how his brain is wired. For people whose brains are wired differently, sometimes no meditation is needed to achieve that same state. The brain can carry on 'as normal' but it's possible for the consciousness to stall completely. I'm not the only one that has crossed busy streets and the like with no recollection of it.

I suppose there's a sliding scale between 'usual' at one end and 'gone gaga' at the other, and perhaps your Swami is somewhere in between. It's also possible to have two different perspectives at the same time, as though two different sets of processing was going on. Attention is one thing but usually being covering in creepy-crawlies brings someone back to reality. I'd guess that there's something more than attention happening.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I suppose one way to look at spirituality is being aware those subconscious subroutines exist and over time and through spiritual practices slowly rewriting and optimizing them.

Those unconscious subroutines create your sense of I am and your Spirituality - all of it - is relative to that point. If you're going to be self-aware then yes they're worth 'optimising' because they create both 'you' and your reality. And they're a part of your self.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

As Dirty Harry said... https://youtu.be/_VrFV5r8cs0

Otherwise it's not real any more.

[Volman]

I think that duality and non duality are just another construct devised within the universal mind. As either most probably don't exist

[Ciona]

Originally Posted by Volman

I think that duality and non duality are just another construct devised within the universal mind. As either most probably don't exist

I don't disagree with your first statement, they're just another polarity actually. Non-duality is actually quite paradoxil in that it 'contains' all of duality, technically. If you believe they exist. You can't separate atoms from 'nothing' you see, even when they're 'not attached'. You can't separate something from nothing and you can't separate nothing from nothing, by definition.

Which brings me to your second statement about the universal mind. Why do you think they don't exist? Are we back to it all being a dream? And who is to say if a 'dream' is or isn't also then, paradoxilly, real? Just playing devils advocate a bit here, I'm not personally advocating a premise of only dream/illusion as reality, or making any statement about my own views on that.

I'm curious about your thoughts on this, or how you define 'construct'.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

The pre-Taoist alchemists called it Triplex Unity where there is 'this, there is 'that' and there is 'both' while in Christianity you have the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Both form the basis of five-dimensional thinking. At best and if you accept Duality you have three dimensions of thinking, if you don't accept Duality and ignore one of the aspects - which is more common than most would believe - you end up with one-dimensional thinking.
...

Yeah this is very interesting. I can also sense that in the long past there have been many spiritual people who had better ability to communicate about more subtle spiritual matters, and trinity related ideas, of the 5th dimension of highly unified unconditional love consciousness vibrations and perception. They had a language and words for many of those things.
Sadly, it's hard to keep something revived, also as civilizations always change along with the languages and meanings and definitions.

I also agree with your statement that we are less free to think our thoughts than we think we are. As we cannot perceive what we are not the vibration of. God Source Consciousness requires an ability to perceive it, which stems from vibrational alignment of our consciousness and perspective, indicated by our emotional state of being.

And it works the other way around. We often wonder, "why are we allowed to perceive that which we do not want, to focus the expansion of awareness on all these unwanted vibrations and beings and becomings and self contradictory perspectives and manifest so many unwanted things and lose our clarity and understanding and conscious ability to connect clearly and realise fully our connection to the higher spiritual matters and wisdoms and knowings and Source perspectives."
And since it always feels so bad, and it is so painful to live those experiences, it is not as accesible to us as we might think. For with every unwanted experience, the desire to re-establish personally consciously realised connection with Source Knowing, becomes stronger. And no matter how deep we go into forgetfulness, the emotion will always be undeniable and also the the negative manifestations and experiences of deviating from source knowingness, always urges us to return back to our expanded awareness of source knowingness and constantly expand our desire for and appreciation of the never ending stream of enlightenment that is always available to us.
In a sense, we are not so free to suffer as we might think, because it is sufferable to suffer.

We are so free, that we are allowed to choose bondage. And every slave inevitably and eventually receives the ultimate order, of being free. And the wisdom of the free one knows this, and thus allows the many portions of itself to choose bondage freely as it so does. And still unconditionally supports and loves the one that does, in its unique creation. Because the outcome is not in question, Source Intelligence and Love allows whatever process one so chooses to be fully and unconditionally evermore fully realised.

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Yeah this is very interesting.

It's all down to people at the end of the day, because Spirituality is about people. "God made man, man made religion."

Maybe in this thread some of the great exponents of non-Duality will solve the riddle of human vs Spiritual.

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

I also agree with your statement that we are less free to think our thoughts than we think we are.

It's where neti-neti comes in, or 'not this, not this'. God Source consciousness as you call it has been covered in so many layers that it's now covered in dust, and Spirituality with its associated beliefs only puts more layers on top.

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

And it works the other way around. We often wonder, "why are we allowed to perceive that which we do not want, to focus the expansion of awareness on all these unwanted vibrations and beings and becomings and self contradictory perspectives and manifest so many unwanted things and lose our clarity and understanding and conscious ability to connect clearly and realise fully our connection to the higher spiritual matters and wisdoms and knowings and Source perspectives."

It's a choice we make, 'allowed' doesn't enter into it.

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

We are so free, that we are allowed to choose bondage.

We are so free we have created bondage, the inability to realise that we create our own realities is a choice.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Maybe in this thread some of the great exponents of non-Duality will solve the riddle of human vs Spiritual.

.

Could you explain what's the riddle?

I'm just a beginner but keen to learn.

Originally Posted by Viswa

Could you explain what's the riddle?

I'm just a beginner but keen to learn.

Hey there Newbie, welcome.

OK, let's start with something very simple, for instance a common saying is "I am not a human on a Spiritual Journey, I am a Spiritual Being on a human Journey." Straight away that implies the 'Spiritual' is different from the 'human', with 'Spiritual' on one side and 'human' on the other. 'This and 'that', the cornerstone of Duality itself.

What are the reasons we can't be both human and Spirit on a Journey? If we don't understand the 'source' of Duality and its nature, is the discussion of non-Duality going to make any real sense? Because the discussion of Duality and non-Duality IS Dualistic. And bonkers.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

OK, let's start with something very simple, for instance a common saying is "I am not a human on a Spiritual Journey, I am a Spiritual Being on a human Journey." Straight away that implies the 'Spiritual' is different from the 'human', with 'Spiritual' on one side and 'human' on the other. 'This and 'that', the cornerstone of Duality itself.

It might seem like it implies difference but if properly understood doesn't. Let's use the analogy of a lucid dream. "I am not a dream body on a Dreamers Journey, I am a Dreamer on a dream body journey." The dream body is in fact the Dreamer but just doesn't "know" it until attaining lucidity. Prior to attaining lucidity the dream body knows it's real as is the dream and all the other dream characters and dream scenery, but upon attaining lucidity "knows" that's only an apparent reality of existence and not the absolute reality of existence.

The person is the Dreamer before the dream begins, during the dream and after the dream ends.

Of course all this discussion transpires in duality just like a conversation in a dream transpires in dream reality and even after one attains lucidity. One "wakes up" within the dream but is still within the dream.

Neti Neti is just a technique of meditative inquiry meant to attain something similar in waking reality, and its ultimate realization is even that thought of "I Am" is not It. It is the Witness or "space" within which it all plays out, including body, mind and even Ahamkara.

You'll probably bring up Triplex Unity and let me explain why that's not quite It. Going back to the lucid dream analogy that implies without both Dreamer and dream the Dreamer doesn't exist. It requires Dreamer, dream and the intersection or unity of both. The Dreamer would beg to differ and so would It should physical reality drop out as in before the Big Bang and after the Big Chill. It or Source still exists regardless whether or not Its manifestations do.

The manifest or extrinsic is dependent upon the unmanifest or intrinsic but not the other way around.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Hey there Newbie, welcome.
OK, let's start with something very simple, for instance a common saying is "I am not a human on a Spiritual Journey, I am a Spiritual Being on a human Journey."

Okay.. Thanks...

[Ciona]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Maybe in this thread some of the great exponents of non-Duality will solve the riddle of human vs Spiritual.

If so then the discussion will potentially be code cracked instead of just crackers