Why I'm not a Taoist

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Molearner

We call this an impasse. If we understand you correctly you do not believe in the spirit yet
you wish for us to prove the Spirit using rationale. .... It can only be personally verified. ....

The whole post was very clear. Yours, too, Still_Waters.

[django]

Originally Posted by ayar415

Science and spirituality are a false dichotomy. There is only the human mind. I am that. You may posit that it has special powers that you - and the mystic - have harnessed to access the spiritual realm where the intellect cannot go. I don't reject that (something you are accusing me of) and am open to what you and others who believe in "gnosis" have to say.

Within Taoism only the balanced heart/mind can be aligned with Tao, intellect on its own cannot align with Tao.

My gnosis develops as balance increases, balance between yin and yang, male and female, black and white. These aspects are very human, of this earth, but being balanced is not the normal state of humanity. For me working with this duality and learning to balance it is the way to align with what is beyond.

[Gatekeeper517]

Originally Posted by ayar415

Testify of the spirit as would mystics? What kind of testimony is that? If it can be personally verified, then it can be universally verified also.

I agree with that science vs spirituality is made up conflict. Often use to put people off balance for an agenda.

science and spirituality go hand in hand.

Think of an incomplete picture of tiger in the jungle as our "spirituality". You only have some pieces and most of the puzzle isn't there.

Science/engineering minds sets don't point to a place with no pieces, or even a whole area of no pieces, and say "See, we don't know what's there so I say its a school of fish in a barrier reef".

They point to the pieces and say "That looks like a leaves. That looks trees. Those pieces there look like a paw and them there look like a nose. And that is clearly an eye.

Now we start our best guesses as to what the picture is that will be our spiritual world view.

We compare the claim:

1) Because there are no pieces right there, nobody knows for sure, so I think its a fish scene on a barrier reef.

vs

2) Due to the the pieces the we do see. The green leaves, the possible tree thing, the eye, and the paw. I think its a forest scene and I think that paw looks like a tigers paw.

There can be more than one possible picture, call it a spiritual path here. But there are also paths that are clearly not the most heathy choices. Like the picture (spiritual path) is a snow cap mountain.

[Gatekeeper517]

Originally Posted by ayar415

Testify of the spirit as would mystics? What kind of testimony is that? If it can be personally verified, then it can be universally verified also.

I agree with science vs spirituality is made up conflict. To me, often used to put people off balance for an agenda.

science and spirituality go hand in hand.

Think of an incomplete picture of tiger in the jungle as our "spirituality". We only have some pieces and most of the puzzle isn't there.

Science/engineering spiritual minds sets don't point to a place with no pieces, or even a whole area of no pieces, and say "See, we don't know what's there so I say its a school of fish in a barrier reef".

They point to the pieces and say "That looks like a leaves. That looks like trees. Those pieces there look like a paw and them there look like a nose. And that is clearly an eye.

Now we start our best guesses as to what the picture is that will be our spiritual world view.

We compare the claim(s):

1) Because there are no pieces right there, nobody knows for sure, so I think its a fish scene on a barrier reef.

vs

2) Due to the the pieces the we do see. The green leaves, the possible tree thing, the eye, and the paw. I think its a forest scene and I think that paw looks like a tigers paw.

There can be more than one possible picture, call it a spiritual path here. But there are also paths that are clearly not the most heathy choices. Like the picture (spiritual path) is a snow cap mountain. Not dicussing the beliefs allows for propagational errors and deepening personal bias to me.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 162 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by django

Within Taoism only the balanced heart/mind can be aligned with Tao, intellect on its own cannot align with Tao.
My gnosis develops as balance increases, balance between yin and yang, male and female, black and white.

You raise two very good points in your post. First of all, "intellect on its own cannot align with Tao". Being an intellectual, it took me a long time to realize that.

Your second statement was even more intriguing.... especially the part about balance increasing in respect to "male and female". Many years ago, my teacher spoke to me in a one-on-one situation and said: "You are both male and female". Your post brought back that very insightful interaction from the past.

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Your second statement was even more intriguing.... especially the part about balance increasing in respect to "male and female". Many years ago, my teacher spoke to me in a one-on-one situation and said: "You are both male and female". Your post brought back that very insightful interaction from the past.

Stiii Waters,

This is intriguing but basic. Gen. 1:27…..”God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.” In my mind I take the liberty of understanding this way: “as being both male and female he created them”. So the original ‘man’ was a spiritual man(i.e. made in the image of God)…..not a physical ‘man’.

The physical appears in Genesis 2….the material….the man from dust…the woman from the rib. Gen. 2:7….”the man became a living being”…..I see this as a distinction from Gen. 1:27.

As far as balance goes and even in relation to the senses should we consider the body as demonstrating balance ? 2 eyes, 2 ears, 2 nostrils, 2 hands, 2 feet……

[Molearner]

Miss Hepburn…..forgive me….in speaking of balance I forgot left brain/right brain….😊

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Miss Hepburn…..forgive me….in speaking of balance I forgot left brain/right brain….😊

Well, yeah, cuz you were coming from your right brain ...be careful of that!

[Molearner]

……btw….2 eyes make depth perception possible….maybe we should consider the way we view things ? Perhaps in depth ?

[ayar415]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper517

I agree with science vs spirituality is made up conflict. To me, often used to put people off balance for an agenda.

science and spirituality go hand in hand.

Of course, they do as they must. Science without spirituality is heartless, and spirituality without science is madness.

And because of this often-used agenda to put us off balance, we end up living in a world that is both cruel (fighting endless wars) and crazy (e.g. Jonestown Massacre).