What is non duality?

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by alanantic

For me...
... 4 year old?

Not allowed to quote.
But, imagine the younger they get the more pure and fresh from source consciousness perspective they are.
Imagine, with that wisdom, of a 4 year old. Imagine how wise a 0 year old. And how wise a minus 1 year old. Negative age, person would be.
With all of that infinite knowing. They still chose to enter this life.

If all of that wisdom, made that choice. Then what hope do we have of ever making the right choice?

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Why?
Duality is energy, it exists everywhere. Inside and outside also duality.

The quoted text appeared describe non-duality precisely . Any issues with that ?
Everything is energy as it derives power from its source . So what is the point in that.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

The quoted text appeared describe non-duality precisely . Any issues with that ?
Everything is energy as it derives power from its source . So what is the point in that.

That is what I am asking you and @hazada guess, too, I guess...
Why is outside body non-dual, and soul non-dual?
Isn't stuff outside the body also duality and energy?
And soul is also spirit and energy and duality?
So I am meaning to ask, why you are saying it is non-dual?
And why you think it is a great way to say it in that way, that outside body and soul is non-dual?

I'm trying to understand. That is why I was asking.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by snowyowl

nonduality = This, the primal unity prior to thoughts about what it is.

The primal unity is also a duality.
Why would you think the primal unity is a non-dual thing?
Just because they are in perfect alignment doesn't mean there is not two?
You need atleast two things to form a unity.
Pure awareness without thought is energetic. It is vibrational. It has negatives and positives. It is energy motional. It is dualistic.
Just because it is pure positive energy, doesn't mean it isn't dualistic. The contrast exists, but it woulden't be possibly for us to descern it perhaps.

I dont get it where you guys gets this idea that non-duality can be experienced...
In order to have awareness, you need self and other. Without other than self, there can be no comparison, no self awareness. How are you gonna experience the self without an "and other"?
How are you gonna experience and know the self without a "something else" to compare that thing to?

[Gatekeeper517]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

The primal unity is also a duality.
Why would you think the primal unity is a non-dual thing?
Just because they are in perfect alignment doesn't mean there is not two?
You need atleast two things to form a unity.

I think it is the "focal point" we choose that defines it.

There is one Forrest. Its not dualistic in its existence. There is one me, I am a single entity with many parts, but I am still just me. The Forrest is still the Forrest and I am the me. We are the forest.

the blanket statement of "its all brahman" isn't good enough for us all. But the notion can most certainty work. To me. Based on what we know that is.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

And why you think it is a great way to say it in that way, that outside body and soul is non-dual?
I'm trying to understand. That is why I was asking.

With quoted text , Hazda seems to convey that constant body based identification & differentiation will lead to duality and soul based identification and communion will lead to one-ness non-duality . That is correct.

I think your questions are based on literal verbatim text of the quote . On that count yes it may not be the best/great way . But I think Hazda tried to convey the aforesaid meaning. Best person to clarify this is he only .
With literal quote there may be some query though Hazda is the right person to say what he tried to convey by his post.

Now non-duality is not denial of duality . It is duality and oneness both at the same time. It is being able to see/discern unity in apparent duality and act accordingly.

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

that non-duality can be experienced...
In order to have awareness, you need self and other. Without other than self, there can be no comparison, no self awareness. How are you gonna experience the self without an "and other"?
How are you gonna experience and know the self without a "something else" to compare that thing to?

If you want to compare u have to have duality and that's where u have the others. However if u want experience the blissful omni-present everlasting existence , there is no need for others . On daily basis we do experience this by compulsion in our sleep . There is no 'Other' , you are alone , there is no comparison and yet you have blissful refreshing relaxing experience.By choice we can try to experience this in meditation too.

Likewise when we experience such unity / non-duality while apparently knowing duality still ignoring it (yet not trespassing duality limits ) in favor of unity in our day to day life , we can experience non-dual blissful existence.

[alanantic]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

But, imagine the younger they get the more pure and fresh from source consciousness perspective they are.
Imagine, with that wisdom, of a 4 year old. Imagine how wise a 0 year old. And how wise a minus 1 year old. Negative age, person would be.
With all of that infinite knowing. They still chose to enter this life.

Hey, I was a dumb kid. The only spiritual wisdom I had was Jesus loved me for the Bible told me so. I had the same experience 30 years later , meditating with a friend. *deleted*

Buddha said, Tell them I'm awake." When you dream at night, what wakes you up? Usually there's "something wrong with this picture". Then you see through the illusion, become lucid, or wake up completely. Meanwhile, I'm asleep and dreaming like most of us here., and looking for something not quite right...

[snowyowl]

I'd agree with Ewwerrin that non-duality isn't an experience, in the sense of an experiencer having an experience. Non-duality, is I think, the pure existence or being common to everything, but which is also nothing in itself - perhaps nothing & everything is a better name than primal unity.

'Awareness' doesn't exist outside thought (if by awareness we mean 'awareness of things') , any more than self and other do imo. That's the interpretation .

"How are you gonna experience and know the self without a "something else" to compare that thing to?"

How is who going to experience the self? This seems to suggest (but I may have misunderstood) that the self needs to cut itself in half in order to know itself? But in that case, the active observing part can only see the passive observed part and not 'itself'. Like if I want to know a feeling or a sense perception, or a thought, who is the observer of these things? My own understanding is that things like thoughts, feelings, sense perceptions, are already conscious, there's no need for an observer to observe them. What we call the self is this bundle of what the Buddhists call the skandha or aggregates.

I don't get the point about energetics, as far as I know all energy and vibration is positive but I'm no expert. But there is a valid point about understanding distinctions and contrasts. The universe isn't a homogeneous blob with no features or boundaries. On the other hand, nothing is truly separate except that we imagine it so. Wholeness and diversity, mind and matter, these are great topics for contemplation.

alanantic: "The only spiritual wisdom I had was Jesus loved me for the Bible told me so."

There is wisdom here. God loves you and God is love. It's as if relationship is more real than the relators doing the loving. We can see the love in process between two people. When we look at an individual person what do we find but a collection of organs in relationship with each other. Those organs are collections of cells relating, which are collections of molecules etc. It's relationship all the way down.

[Ewwerrin]

I would even further clarify that and say:

Non-duality is being without becoming. Non-aware existence. The aspect of existence that does not know itself.
There is the aspect of existence, all-that-is, which is aware of itself. And that is being with becoming. As you call it brahma or god source.
Non-existence, however, does not exist. Literally. By definition, non-existence, Does Not Exist.

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Why?
Duality is energy, it exists everywhere. Inside and outside also duality.

Duality is the differentiated consciousness of the ego, non-duality is duality, and the only fundamental quality anything has is Isness.