Beginner's Guide to Meditation?

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Gem

...but if you say meditation is non-doing and also say do visualisation, chant, control breath, count etc. that's a direct contradiction.

Not necessarily. It depends on what we understand by non-doing.

The body always acts. The body can never not act. Even if the body sits completely still and does nothing, this is still action. But Being does nothing. All actions occur in Being without affecting Being. Being simply is. So the body may sit in the full lotus and chant and count breaths and visualise. This is all just action occurring within the inaction of Being.

As it says in the Bhagavad Gita (III-16) (with apologies for the gender references):

He who sees inaction in action and action in inaction, he is wise among men, he is harmonious, even while performing all action.

Peace

[Gem]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Not necessarily. It depends on what we understand by non-doing.

It just means not intentionally doing, and instead, merely being aware of it as it already happens to be. The stuff that happens by itself, is 'observable', but chants visualisations and so forth aren't there unless you make it happen. That's an easy distinction to make. Then there's all the stuff you do unintentionally, reactivity, negativity and the like, that you make happen, but not on purpose, which is the initial problem of having a wild mind. But claiming purposeful visualisations, chants, counts, controls 'just happen' without you actively doing it is preposterous.

Not going to say doing the things is bad; it's good. Just saying it doesn't make sense to say non doing - and then say do this that or the other thing.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Interesting views here on what volition is or isn’t interpreting what doership vs non-doership could be. To me, it’s quite simple. We are alive; analyse it and we are in mind, celebrate and we are in heart.

So, shift to heart. Use mind of the heart. The higher mind, universal mind.

Lower mind is an instrument, used when needed, otherwise not.

We are so identified with the thinking process that we cannot imagine the possibility of awareness without it. However, not only is it possible, it is in fact, our natural state.

So, we are quiet, silent, relaxed, in our native element. Aware. Is it volition or non-volition?

Thereafter, with silence as our default orientation, we connect rather than grasp, we be to become rather than attain. Just like a flower blossoming. Surrender. Grace. Always in the moment, leaving no residue.

The intermediary coordinates we experience such as experiences, wisdom downloads, revelations, messages, manifestations and so on are what we may call the bardo, we hover between duality and singularity in the play of polarities. After glimpses, we ‘become’ embodied with bliss in permanence, that later yet transcends to time stretched peace.

But these are results. What we speak of is volition vs non-volition. So, in silence and receptivity without resistance, there is no identity. In fact, realisation of Self sees identity drop away. Somewhat like Samadhi but with innate freedom.

On my part, I accept all practices, be it folding hands in prayer in a temple, mosque or church or breath watching, or whatever. In each method or non method we are attempting to let go of identity and enter inner silence. Ultimately, the prioritisation of living internally whilst nonchalance to outcomes in the world external and yet retaining vibrancy becomes a flowing orientation of freedom renewing itself moment to moment, allowing a transmutation of in-form cognition.

Reworded, it’s subtraction, not addition that lifts the veil. We may call it meditation.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Gem

It just means not intentionally doing, and instead, merely being aware of it as it already happens to be. The stuff that happens by itself, is 'observable', but chants visualisations and so forth aren't there unless you make it happen. ... But claiming purposeful visualisations, chants, counts, controls 'just happen' without you actively doing it is preposterous..

This is your understanding of non-doing. Others may have a different understanding. And it could be argued that choosing to merely be aware is also an intentional action.

All chanting and counting and whatever occur within the stillness of Being, but Being does not act. So do we identify with the action or do we identify with Being and the non-doership of Being, even while action is occurring?

Peace

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Interesting views here on what volition is or isn’t interpreting what doership vs non-doership could be.

I'm able to make a clear distinction between what 'just is' and what I have to make happen. I think people can easily discern between these. Trying to diminish that as a mere point of view is an obfuscation of clarity.

Is it volition or non-volition?

That's not hard to discern.

If you "accept all practice", then you contradict yourself by saying meditation is 'non-doership'. If you say non-doership is not the defining quality of meditation, that would resolve the contradiction.

If it's "subtraction, not addition", then there's no point 'adding on', which means doing-meditations like chants, visualisations, breath control etc. are superfluous. I don't care which way you go with your view, but it has to to be consistent or it makes no sense.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Sure, Gem ~ perhaps I’ve not been able to convey in words what is meant. We can each self-discover for ourselves in thought rested stillness.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by iamthat

This is your understanding of non-doing.

I'm going to assume that people can discern between what they make happen from what 'just is' and leave it at that. I'll just suggest to meditation for beginners that it's best to be discerning, consider things carefully, and if what's said is contradictory, there's no reason behind it, the dots don't connect; it is probably hogwash. Be wary of flowery sounding spiritualese rhetoric. It is beguiling but devoid of substance and often-times misleading. Don't believe too much from experts, because honestly, the vast majority are hacking it. Listen critically and think for yourself. It's your life and your path. No one can lead you by the hand, yet you are not alone, even though so few will walk beside you.

[Unseeking Seeker]

It’s not so simple in my view, Gem ~ let’s say, as of your practice of watching breath, is it volition or non-violition? At what stage is focus on auto-mode?

Is yearning a seeking? How is it distinguished from desire?

We need to exit the mind trap. Analysis is paralysis. If there is thought, there is a thinker thinking, a doer doing. Resonance is the key word, centred at heart.

(just an interjection to keep the thread lively!)

[Unseeking Seeker]

Currently viewing this great chat between Jeff Archer and Jeff Carreira on Buddha at the gas pump ~ relevant to this thread, being about meditation. Here it is ~ https://youtu.be/KAYxKfMKcn8

Enjoy!

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

If there is thought, there is a thinker thinking, a doer doing.

Surely non-doing is not something which applies just to meditation - it is present in every moment of our lives.

For example, I look in the cupboard and decide I need some groceries. So I walk down the street to the shops, observing my surroundings, listening to the traffic, mentally creating a shopping list, going into various shops to make purchases. The question is, is there a small separate self which identifies as the doer of all these things?

Or is there no longer a small separate self? Thoughts arise, walking happens, seeing happens, hearing happens, buying happens. But there is no-one present who is doing these things. It is all just action arising out of stillness.

The same applies to meditation. The mental intention to do a particular practice is just another thought arising. Whether we are sitting motionless in the full lotus on a cushion or chanting or counting or whatever, is there a small separate self which identifies as the doer? Or is there no-one present and these things are just happening?

Peace