A bit on conceptualizing the intangible and explaining the unseen to sceptics and oth

[NoOne]

A common problem those involved with Kundalini, chakras, energy work or just plain spirituality of any kind might face in their day-to-day lives is how to explain all of this to the great mass of ignoramuses of this world, who may show a sceptical, belittling or dismissive attitude to something that to most of us here, is as real as the blood coursing through our veins and the air filling our lungs with each breath.

I use the word ignoramus decidedly as it best describes an attitude where one essentially ignores the signals and perception inputs of their own body, to the extent that they are completely unaware of the very processes that underlie every second of their existence in this reality. You really have to ignore an awful lot to take a strictly materialistic view of the human body, but due to the comprehensive programming and brainwashing we receive from birth, this ignorant point of view remains the norm.

So, should you meet a slightly open-minded person, who is ready to entertain that they may not know everything there is to know and empirical science, as a philosophical method of inquiry (being a tiny sub-branch within the vast edifice of philosophy) has its limitations, this is how you may go about explaining the ineffable and intangible reality of chakras, nadis, prana, kundalini, spirit and much else beyond to them.

The easiest method, I find, is to make them aware of their emotional body first. This is already an energetic construct (with an undefined form of energy and matter, which we can probably just label “dark” as scientists do, because it is not visible to the naked eye or scientific instruments), centred around the chakras and the nadis. If they were to say that chakras don’t exist as is the current scientific consensus, one might point them to the existence of love as an intangible force and its central organ in the body, the energetic heart (sternum), which according to them, isn’t a real organ and doesn’t exist. Yet, we experience our “hearts” as the energetic, emotional and spiritual centre of our very being.

Think back to the first time you were in love. Note the sensations you feel in your body as you remember this feeling. What is this feeling you feel, what is this organ in the sternum, where it is felt and what are those “heart strings” or gunas, invisible ties of energy that link you to the object of your affection?

When I was 18, a freshman in college and in love for the first time, I could not only “feel” the strings connecting us, but I could “see” them with my mind’s eye, or perceive it, if that is what you prefer and the energetic image or imprint of our love is still seared into my memory. What I saw back then, where three colourful strings of energy (Sattva, Rajas and Tamas Gunas) emanating from my heart, through the sternum all the way to the person I loved. In this state of “being in love” we were in tune and I felt every little energetic and emotional vibration of the other as if we were linked across space and time, which, we were. You’re probably also familiar with the sensation of being in tune with the person you love, to the extent that you know what they’re thinking before they say a word or if you are apart, they will know when you’re thinking about them, or you will anticipate a phone call or text from them, before it happens. Oxford biologist Rupert Sheldrake theorised that a phenomenon similar to quantum entanglement was responsible for this phenomenon, which we can all observe in our daily lives, especially around loved ones and pets. Yet again, it is unacknowledged by science and the sceptical mainstream, despite pretty much everyone having personal proof of it.

In fact, staying with Rupert Sheldrake’s research, who is an erstwhile colleague and now arch-nemesis of the famous materialist Richard Dawkins, it has been shown through various statistical research methods, that the “sense of being stared at”, premonition, telepathy and many other supposedly psychic phenomena are in fact everyday occurrences not just in humans, but animals too and must be fundamental to how nature and the universe operates. Yes, science hasn’t yet caught up to the reality of our everyday lived experience in this regard, but we can be sure, that once sufficient attention (and thus funding and recognition) is paid to this currently neglected and ridiculed field of research, large strides will be made in a very short time.

So, in summary, there are many spiritual and subtle-physical phenomena that we can’t currently explain using the very limited and rudimentary tools of empirical science, but that does not mean that we should ignore them and efforts should be made to trust our own perceptions of such phenomena and not to take the claims of scientists, most of whom have zero knowledge of the spiritual realm, as some sort of gospel. Yes, science is an important tool in understanding physical reality, but what it isn’t, is a philosophical and moral framework by which we can live our lives and understand the full spectrum of our existence, including that of consciousness or the spirit.

[Unseeking Seeker]

The spiritual quest across all paths and practices accepts that we need to let go of to get to. Relinquishing control, feeling instead of thinking, handing over baton of awareness to heart. No wonder in the materialistic world, this is discouraged, perhaps looked at as an abnormality. So the inner polarity of mind and senses remains untapped.

I have attempted without success to explain to friends, the shifts within owing to kundalini energisation. The responses ranged from incredulous disbelief to advice that I need to see a doctor. It’s pointless.

I’m fortunate in that at least two friends in Delhi know by direct experience what this is all about, so we can exchange notes from time to time. Others who do various vipasna retreats or follow practices under guidance of a guru have a relatively better idea but actually their routine is also more or less mechanical and yet in local mind. None I know have actually felt the magnetic surge deep within radiating from inside out.

SF is actually a forum where there are several who have experienced in different ways. It is humbling that each experience is equally valid as any other and yet unique in the manner of it’s unfoldment.

[lostsoul13]

Reminds me of quantum entanglement ~

The vastness between the love and need & desires- fleeting or our goals , ambitions… until they become needs for the self?

Love will conquer all eventually..
We must love in pain so to say pain is included ~ including and reforming…

Great post!

[Miss Hepburn]

That was great NoOne.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by NoOne

So, in summary, there are many spiritual and subtle-physical phenomena that we can’t currently explain using the very limited and rudimentary tools of empirical science, but that does not mean that we should ignore them and efforts should be made to trust our own perceptions of such phenomena and not to take the claims of scientists, most of whom have zero knowledge of the spiritual realm, as some sort of gospel.

This is very true. Most scientists who study the material universe in minute detail are ignorant of the nature of their own consciousness which gazes out of their eyes. They fail to understand that the answers they seek are found in the more subtle realms beyond the physical.

Trying to reason with such people is futile - they can be as blinkered as any religious fundamentalist.

The German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer once said that all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Regarding spiritual knowledge, many scientists are still stuck in the first two stages.

Peace

[Justin Passing]

A friend of mine's daughter is, at this point, a highly educated scientist working in chemistry. She's interested in spiritual things (not religion), but is afraid to pursue those interests because of her focus on science. To me, science can only study what it can detect and measure. It's field is limited. For instance, physical science can't study feelings - they're outside it's "purview" - there are no tools available for empirical study outside of looking at brain activity, etc. So there should be no conflict. Physical science has nothing to say about most spiritual topics because they can't measure/detect/study it empirically.

Thing is, most people tend to think that if science can't detect or measure something it isn't real. That's not science - that's garbage - but that's how most people think. And she's conflicted because, as a scientist, she thinks she shouldn't be interested in things that aren't "real". How did we let this happen? How did we allow science to become the final arbitrator of our existence? Science is great - but it never wanted that job. It's not qualified for that job, and any real scientist should know that. What are we teaching these kids? Religion gets an affectionate pat on the head, but everything else is banished to "fantasy land" unless science can verify it somehow.

You get led to the right people and places to work with our Brothers and Sisters concerning spiritual matters.
The rest that just roll eyes hopefully will end up on their path where they need to be.
It all comes/works out in the wash, I'm told.

@NoOne are you still active on youtube? I have a question from one of your vids.Or if you take messages here in messenger, I can do that.

[NoOne]

Btw, I love the time stamp on my original post, so many times when I post on this forum, there will be a highly synchronous or significant time stamp attached to it:

22-04-2022, 10:44 AM

@ImThatIm
Not doing videos at the moment, but I'm still on youtube of course, feel free to ask any questions, here or there.

@Iamthat
I am familiar with that way of thinking as I used to be a "devoted" materialist and atheist. It is literally ignorance, because you are ignoring a whole range of human experience and perception and consigning yourself to the physical senses and thus the physical world. It's like a horse wearing blinders. You limit your own perception and thinking to a very small subsection of reality.

@MH - thanks, always appreciate your feedback

@US - you are indeed lucky, but then India is a place where you're much more likely to find such people and of course Delhi is a huge city. There are no people like that (that I know of) anywhere near where I live.

@Justin_Passing
She should really read Rupert Sheldrake on the matter. He is a huge eye-opener on this topic and is actually a very thorough research scientist in his own right. Reading one of his books, like "the sense of being stared at", one can't fail to come away with a more open mind and a newfound appreciation for the wonders of nature that are yet to be discovered by science.

[FallingLeaves]

at some point I got tired of beating my head on a wall and decided to address the elephant in the room... so I asked myself why do I WANT this to be understood? And I also asked myself, what do you suppose the end results must be, if I were to actually succeed in this?

[Busby]

Originally Posted by NoOne

A common problem lives is how to explain all of this to the great mass of ignoramuses of this world, who may show a sceptical, belittling or dismissive attitude to something that to most of us here, is as real as the blood coursing through our veins and the air filling our lungs with each breath.

That, NoOne, was really a very well written piece. Comprehensive is probably the right word.

I would however be very careful of the 'ingoramuses' bit.

I, after more than 8 decades and have followed all possible paths I end up declaring myself belonging to this group of ignorants. There is nothing - absolutely nothing - which in any way even indicates that there might be some sort of forces (whatever name 'they' may have) which underly everyday lives. I'm not speaking as an atheist here but as a serious seeker wishing to explain the very odd and weird experiences I have had in my life.

If we continue to 'believe' in such things as karma, kundalini, chakras, ghosts, paranormal experiences, in fact the whole range of esoterics without calling upon science to find an explanation then we'll be struggling with the same questions for centuries.

For most of the 8 billion people on this planet life isn't an opportunity but a constant fight. If we assume that there is a reason for all this while people are getting blown up and shot during times of utter destruction then there had better be a jolly good argument for such an existence.

It's time to take a different look on things, boating about on the river is getting us nowhere.

I love to think of the Vietnamese rice farmer up to his knees all of his life in water, living off that which he has sown and keeping his family nourished. He probably knows more about how things really are than any hand waving preacher.