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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Most Anything > Philosophy & Theory

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  #11  
Old 22-08-2022, 01:37 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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I thought the article wasn't great. It was typical basic internet stuff, and that's not 'just an opinion'. It's more like, say you had 7 cards with different shades of green. you can objectively order them from dark green to light.
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  #12  
Old 10-11-2022, 11:10 AM
Ahriman Ahriman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
I have found Intuition to be more effective and more reliable than conceptual thought.
Insightful post.
Attachment 3056
Nah the other guy is right, they're equal. Both forms can lead to error.
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It's hard to pick which ones they eat the most" - Marilyn Manson
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  #13  
Old 09-03-2023, 12:20 AM
Maisy Maisy is offline
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Conceptual thought based on actual experience is probably better than concepts we just made up. Or concepts of actual things as opposed to imaginary things. But if made up stuff and imaginary things makes you happy and a nicer person, I am all for them.
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  #14  
Old 09-03-2023, 10:22 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maisy
Conceptual thought based on actual experience is probably better than concepts we just made up. Or concepts of actual things as opposed to imaginary things. But if made up stuff and imaginary things makes you happy and a nicer person, I am all for them.

yeah, hard to tell what stuff is made up/imaginary and what is real though. This place tends to set people on fire, to get people imagining pretty much anything they can other than what is real... (cherubim with a flaming sword at the east gate to eden) and to douse the flames even a little kinda hurts...

but no point in chasing one's tail to try to find things one just can't see... that just makes everything a lot worse lol...

As far as the stuff I talk about, that is just the way I see things from my current perspective. My life doing that is kinda harsh though, others wouldn't much appreciate...

But I also know that words can be very misleading, a simple choice between two different phrasings can send my mind off in entirely different directions that have nothing to do with what I was trying to say to begin with. And then I'm saying stuff I never started out to say.

And that doesn't even begin to state that words as we know them just can't express some things to begin with (because of what happened at babel).

but I suppose all i just said... is more of the same... much ado about nothing... lol...
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  #15  
Old 01-12-2023, 07:57 AM
Masrur Farhin Masrur Farhin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wstein
I don't agree that 'conceptual thought' is what is described. The rest of the article is right on. You might also look into the 'Reactive Mind'.
No need to add any sugar, just tell us the truth
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  #16  
Old 04-12-2023, 05:28 AM
winter light winter light is offline
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I think the main error possible from conceptual thought is that it appears to create ultimate understanding while it also can lead to a sort of black hole of illusions that do not actually lead anywhere. The illusion of permanence for example.

There is the idea that once there is enough understanding, that there will be truth, and somehow that will be a source of peace or power or control, depending what is sought. Instead it becomes an end in itself. And that trap is sometimes hard to recognize.

Peace I think comes more from intention, and conceptual thought can be part of that process but does not lead it. Rather each understanding must eventually be released to serve the next moment. That release though is an antithesis to the status quo of conceptual thought.

The Tower of Babel in the Bible is, as far as I understand it, probably a good lesson about how conceptual thought operates when it is a dominant process. Everyone keeps building and building toward something but it does not work out as they expect. Nor for the greater good. At least if you define good as something beautiful.

Everything understood up until now is just the beginning of the present moment.

What is more interesting to me than the error of conceptual thought is how we may organize it to serve the greater good. Concepts like peace or love or systems organized to support them. That require something beyond understanding as the primary purpose. So that a legacy of value is created and maintained.
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  #17  
Old 07-12-2023, 03:26 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winter light
Rather each understanding must eventually be released to serve the next moment.

i think I was pretty much lost, until the day I saw that building bars for my own cage is maybe not the best approach... but everyone else building bars means that if I won't partake too I have to separate from the crowd somewhat. None of us wants that...

Quote:
The illusion of permanence for example.

Quote:
So that a legacy of value is created and maintained.

i hope you can appreciate the conflict in the former two statements....
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  #18  
Old 24-12-2023, 06:45 AM
winter light winter light is offline
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..........

Last edited by winter light : 24-12-2023 at 09:09 AM.
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  #19  
Old 24-12-2023, 07:08 AM
winter light winter light is offline
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..........

Last edited by winter light : 24-12-2023 at 09:09 AM.
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  #20  
Old 24-12-2023, 09:11 AM
winter light winter light is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
i think I was pretty much lost, until the day I saw that building bars for my own cage is maybe not the best approach...
but everyone else building bars means that if I won't partake too I have to separate from the crowd somewhat. None of us wants that...
It took me a couple of days to become at peace with the conflict I started between impermanence and legacy of value. There is no conflict from a certain perspective. I have had a solid experience of both. And for some reason I am sort of compelled to share this perspective. Maybe just for my own sanity. But somehow I hope that others can see beyond these cages. And instead build friendly castles.

The impermanence is obvious but the legacy of value much harder to describe for several reasons and you could write a book about it. But I don't have time for that...

My own way to separate from the crowd is that I do not accept the idea that our circumstance is based on some inherent flaw in either our nature or the nature of the world. That idea got tired for me. The only way I find through it is to face the conflict head on, and insist on finding a new perspective.

To be more precise, it was not actually something new. Rather it was how I already felt separate during my whole life. Like everything and everyone around me was some reality that did not add up. It was up to me to find a way to find peace beyond appearances that the crowd was insisting on. Those appearances are ideas that are like structures and everyone takes for granted that they are treating the patterns as if they are permanent conditions.

I see the world now based on vibrations. Repeating patterns at every scale, from a nanosecond, to a second, to an hour, to a year, to millions of years. Just because the nature of the world is not permanent does not mean that there are no patterns that repeat and it does not mean there is not some kind of structure.

So for example thousands of years ago around the time of the invention of bow and string someone found that plucking the string made a pleasant sound. Then someone also got an idea to put many strings on a single frame and the harp was born. After some time someone hit the strings with hammers and the hammer dulcimer was born. Then this led to the harpsichord and the piano. Here we have something changing while also there is a legacy of value being brought forward.

And then this is an example of the beauty I was talking about. Years ago I got obsessed with this song, trying to find someone who played it as the real deal. I found a record store where they let you listen to samples. They were all very different but I think this is as close to hearing Beethoven play as we can get:

Emil Gilels Beethoven Sonata No 14 Moonlight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSDUG4rtQFo

That's not philosophy. That's real.
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