Existence.Preordination.Science.

[weareunity]

Hello all.

Pondering upon a question.--please forgive shortcomings in the following attempt to put the question into words.

Is it possible for those having the perception of existence being an inextricably interconnected, interdependant, and as yet constantly ongoing process of cause and consequence--with material objects "themselves" being consequences of that process--to also hold the belief that every cause and consequence--past, present and future--and of whatever apparent magnitude, enormous or minute, has been somehow intentionally and purposefully pre-ordained in any sense other than the recognition that there are observable and predictable outcomes regarding interactions?----( With this "recognition" being a characteristic component of study within the various specialities which comprise what we call "scientific" enquiry. )

cheers.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by weareunity

Is it possible for those having the perception of existence being an inextricably interconnected, interdependant, and as yet constantly ongoing process of cause and consequence--with material objects "themselves" being consequences of that process--..... pre-ordained in any sense other than the recognition that there are observable and predictable outcomes regarding interactions?----

Many a times cause and consequence are the same like
Poor is poor becasue he/she is poor.
Sick is sick because he/she is sick .
Rich is rich because he/she is rich .

Now this at first are very well observable fact many places and many times . And largely in many cases this remains true also. But these are not eternal truths . With knowledge , appreciation and application of other laws of the universe , these observations can easily be proved wrong .At best such observation can be considered pseudo science .

Outcomes are not pre-ordained . How the outcomes are derived / arrived can be pre-ordained . People are given enough meaningful freedom & intellect to change the outcome following many other laws and to have the fun and excitement very much required to enjoy the great play called life .

[inavalan]

The cause-effect we observe is the result of our beliefs and expectations. In many cases it actually operates in the opposite direction, vice versa.

One is unhappy because they have no money? No: one has no money because they are unhappy.

Thought before matter. Science doesn't recognize this.

There is no predetermination. Each ego has the free-will to choose. The only limitations are those raised by one's conscious and unconscious beliefs. One of the reasons for which we are here-now is to learn to maintain our identity while immersed in / are part of diversity.

[Altair]

That's a long sentence!

Answer: No.

There is no pre-ordained purpose behind this world. Simply observing nature can show us this. Random comets can hit the Earth and it can kill off species that are well adapted to existing environmental circumstances. And there are no perfect species, they survive in specific circumstances and too much pressure can lead towards their extinction.

An intelligent species like us, of which a large part believes the Earth was ''created'' and humans were told to rule it, could for example be wiped out by a comet. That's that. All that development, all the discovery, all the religious fervour. Everything wiped out in little time.

[Native spirit]

I would have to say I agree with that.


Namaste

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Altair

...
There is no pre-ordained purpose behind this world. Simply observing nature can show us this. ...

Those statements, and those not included because of this site's policies, are your beliefs. Nothing more, nothing less.

When you dream, you hold the same beliefs, with the same conviction, about your dream experience.

Surely there is purpose in this world. It is just that you don't know it.

Surely your observations about nature are just beliefs acquired form others' claims, that you decided to adhere to. Even worse: believing is seeing.

And so on ...

[Altair]

Originally Posted by inavalan

Surely your observations about nature are just beliefs acquired form others' claims, that you decided to adhere to. Even worse: believing is seeing.

Nah, it's just what is going on. Every species is adapted to specific conditions. Those with favourable characteristics pass on their genes.
A random comet can end many. Then all that specific complexity is gone forever. There is just no reason to believe in 'creationism' (or its other names, i.e. 'intelligent design'). All organisms and their characteristics can be explained through evolution, which lacks purpose.

More on this: https://www.nature.com/scitable/know...aits-15164254/

But there's not much point to discuss this though when someone rejects empiricism and instead believes in solipsism, and assumes science is on the same page as religion. It isn't.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Altair

...
But there's not much point to discuss this though when someone rejects empiricism and instead believes in solipsism, and assumes science is on the same page as religion. It isn't.

I don't believe in solipsism. You're mistaken about that.

Per Webster: definition of empiricism = 1b. quackery, charlatanry.

Blind belief in science is as detrimental as in everything else. It isn't even a crutch when one can't do better.

[Altair]

That definition is terrible. A good reminder not to use merrian webster!

And ''blind belief in science'' ~ that's projecting religion upon science. There is no need for ''blind belief''.

There is no point to this conversation because you reject empirical study as a basis for understanding our world.
You believe everything is just thoughts, so it ends up being about your own thoughts, which can't be replicated.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Altair

...There is no pre-ordained purpose behind this world. Simply observing nature can show us this.
Random comets can hit the Earth ....

I respect you and the links you leave.
Pls consider watching this youtube having nothing to do with Christianity or believing the Bible, but in the QUESTIONING of the stories in the Bible,
by an inquisitive, intellectual using equations and computer models
that NASA uses today! (From J. Kepler, was that the 16thc?)...Anyway-
equations of the 'stars' that allowed NASA to send a probe into space to land TEN YRS later on a moving asteroid, successfully!... traveling
88k miles per second or minute ...the Rosetta Project. (2003 or 2013)...I say this from memory, sorry.

This video/documentary gives a whole new perspective that the Universe is like a fine tuned Swiss clock ...all the cogs fitting precisely as planned!!
As many NDErs have experienced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exmbuX1NffU