Why is equanimity the 4th Jhana?

[Gem]

I tend to be on point with the reality of situations, and for most of us, probably all, life isn't all roses. The reality of our lives isn't so grand. From an objective perspective, it makes no difference at all what degrees people are purified and you can be as are without any way of fitting into in a hierarchy of some kind. There is no reason whatsoever to make impressions.

In Buddhist philosophy, millions of pages have been written by scholars on Jhana, and I have not read a single one. I have no idea what they are, and to be perfectly frank, I don't care. When I did my meditation training, Jhanas appeared briefly in the lessons without a minute's ado, but equanimity was a cornerstone to the practice because the meditation is defined as: ardent awareness, with understanding of impermanence, free from aversion and craving in the world.

Know by direct experience the reality of that experience in the way as it is. The truth. The actuality as it is for you.

There are life-long, highly trained monks who are bound in desires, and erratic and unsafe. And conversely, I've come across novices with no meditation experience who are rock-solid established in equanimity. Anything can happen and they are not rattled by it, and you can trust them because they wish you the best and do not want anything from you. These more subtle qualities can be completely overlooked in spiritual practice because the practitioner never stopped to be with 'what is', and just continued to practice with desire to get more and more of what they want.

[JustBe]

So can I ask you why you asked initially why is it the highest?

In your seeing and asking obviously you see it this way.

Did you mean highest or maybe most valuable to this human experience?

[JustBe]

I think when you cease to want and desire it becomes a more spontaneous occurrence as your experience is.. Your not thinking about what your being and doing but rather opening up to allow yourself and the other/s or experience to be what it will be.

So in this view, there is not only full acceptance of yourself but also what is one with you.

I think a lot of people can confuse acceptance with adverse external happenings or things they don’t want or think is desirable as accepting ‘wrong or bad or unacceptable’ things. But it’s actually more empowering to the ‘whole’ In this way.

The acceptance of what is moves much further than our own personal reality.

In this view the acceptance of more than yourself alone moves and acts with greater affect for more than yourself alone. This is not to say what is occurring beyond your own reality is your doing. It’s actually not your going. The intention is your doing, the acceptance is your doing, the inclusion is your being including aware.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

In Buddhist philosophy, millions of pages have been written by scholars on Jhana, and I have not read a single one. I have no idea what they are, and to be perfectly frank, I don't care.

But you personally started a Thread that asked,
'That said, why is equanimity the highest of 4 Jhanas?' if you don't care, you must think it's the 'Highest' to have asked the question

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

why is it the highest? Did you mean highest or maybe most valuable to this human experience?

I'm not sure why it's highest per-se, but it's the last attainment in the satipatthana sutta and the 10th listed Parami (perfection), so seems to be a high priority - as it was during my training as well. In my view, no matter what experience is, low, high or gross or subtle, equanimity has to be there just the same regardless of what the experience is like. It isn't an experience in itself, but the balance of mind like a constant as experience changes. In that sense it is 'higher' than any experience because with equanimity you do not chase/avoid experience. It is key to the purification process because with equanimity, you stop generating impurity and you can be stable minded in the face of your emerging contents - enabling them to arise to the light of conscious awareness and pass away.

However, when it's highest, it isn't in isolation. In Buddhism they separate qualities into lists to explain them, but in practice it all happens at once, so we think of highest as the last step, whereas the Buddhist would say it's a high priority or of great value or something like that, but I'll just say, Practice equanimity is the highest order.

[sky]

Another way to look at how one moves from Jhana to Jhana is with the simile of the thousand-petalled lotus. The petals in a thousand-petalled lotus open up in order, in strict succession, only after being warmed by the sun. The First Jhana can be compared to the rare and delicate 993rd row of petals. Just as the 993rd row of petals, now being warmed by the sun, holds and conceals within the even more fragrant 994th row of petals, so the rare and delicate First Jhana now being warmed by letting go, holds and conceals within it the even more blissful Second Jhana. When this 993rd row of petals eventually opens up, then the 994th row of petals appears in its center. In the same way, when First Jhana eventually opens up, then the Second Jhana appears in its 'center. Thus the Second Jhana is actually within the First Jhana, the Third Jhana within the Second Jhana, and the Fourth Jhana within the Third Jhana.

To put it another way, in the simile of the four-roomed house, the rooms are concentric. Thus one does not come out from the First Jhana to go next to the Second Jhana. Instead, one goes deeper into the First Jhana to go into the Second Jhana, deeper into the Second Jhana to get to the Third Jhana, and deeper in to the Third Jhana to enter the Fourth Jhana. The next level of Jhana always lies within the present Jhana.

https://www.dhammatalks.net/Books/Aj...The_Jhanas.htm

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sky

If you see it as the 'Highest' then there has to be a 'Lowest' and that is not equanimity

I agree with you that seeing it as the "highest" suggests that there has to be a "lowest" as well ... and that is not equanimity in my opinion as well.

I came across the concept of jhanas after years of meditation under my primary spiritual mentor and the Buddhist jhanas were immediately clear to me as a great description of the enlightening process. After discussing them with Buddhist monks in at least 10 different countries, I don't consider any of them to be the "highest" or the "lowest" but just various stages in a very natural process.

From an experiential pragmatic perspective, my understanding of the four jhanas is as follows:

1. The first jhana focuses on thought injection and discursive thought. For example, my primary spiritual mentor would say or do something that was mind-boggling and seemingly absurd at times. When sitting in meditation, that completely absorbed me (a jhana is sometimes described as an "absorption") and I would be so absorbed that 8-9 hours would pass by with absolutely no awareness of elapsed time. Initially, I couldn't believe that 8-9 hours had elapsed as there is no sense of time or body consciousness in a fully absorbed meditation.

2. At some point ... possibly the same day or many many meditation sessions later... there would be a breakthrough, an "Aha Moment". The 2nd jhana is associated with the joy/rapture of that "Aha Moment".

3. That initial reaction of joy, as one experiences when one solves a riddle, eventually mellows into happiness and that is the characteristic associated with the 3rd jhana.

4. Eventually, even the happiness subsides as equanimity manifests as the 4th jhana with an "I can't believe that I didn't realize this sooner as it's so obvious now" attitude.

Hence, "highest" or "lowest" doesn't even seem to apply to the jhanas.

Of course, when one resolves one "riddle" in this manner, there can be yet another ... and another ... riddle to be solved in exactly the same way. Hence, this process can repeat itself over and over again until .....

Equanimity therefore does not necessarily imply enlightenment as meditation does indeed reveal all (that is important to know at that time) ... until the next mind-boggling situation arises and forces one to adjust one's "right view" once again as one gets closer and closer to RIGHT VIEW accompanied by an increasingly awesome, pervasive, unshakeable peace/equanimity.

NOTE: There are some "know-it-all" types who profess equanimity until one watches their responses in certain challenging situations when they suddenly becoming "equanimity-challenged". It is well said that self-realized beings are generally very very quiet while empty barrels make the most noise.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I agree with you that seeing it as the "highest" suggests that there has to be a "lowest" as well ... and that is not equanimity

Jhanas are definitely an interesting subject and different Buddhist Schools seem to see them in various ways, what amuses me is that they all agree that 'Jhanas are contained entirely within the mind ' I wonder do they think that the ' Empty Barrels ' imagine that they are in the coat pocket.
I personally see them as being like an onion, each layer reveals another which can't be seen until the previous layer has peeled away. None are higher nor lower, they all exist within each other.....

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Gem

I'm not sure why it's highest per-se, but it's the last attainment in the satipatthana sutta and the 10th listed Parami (perfection), so seems to be a high priority - as it was during my training as well. In my view, no matter what experience is, low, high or gross or subtle, equanimity has to be there just the same regardless of what the experience is like. It isn't an experience in itself, but the balance of mind like a constant as experience changes. In that sense it is 'higher' than any experience because with equanimity you do not chase/avoid experience. It is key to the purification process because with equanimity, you stop generating impurity and you can be stable minded in the face of your emerging contents - enabling them to arise to the light of conscious awareness and pass away.

However, when it's highest, it isn't in isolation. In Buddhism they separate qualities into lists to explain them, but in practice it all happens at once, so we think of highest as the last step, whereas the Buddhist would say it's a high priority or of great value or something like that, but I'll just say, Practice equanimity is the highest order.

Ok I see what you mean.

In my own personal experience I understand how all things work together, not one or two aspects of my own awakenings as ‘something’ seperate. So it’s similar in relation to the teachings I suppose you could say. We walk through an experience that becomes the realisation and each one integrates into the awareness of you as this aware. Then of course it becomes the lived experience as yourself.

As for equanimity, I find the ability in myself now with this practice quite liberating. I don’t get stuck in all the details, entangled in others reality, discern more readily and let go more freely. Living in this way of balance does endow you with a resilence to just get on with your own life. Live in such a way, you know what’s important in the grander scale of all things.


So as I see it, it’s one thing as a total practice, you can do that bridges profound
Peace with yourself and life in time.


The practice doesn’t take away what you might feel or have arise in you, but certainly over time those things subside faster and ultimately become less and less, where you eventually see yourself in ‘non reaction’ to each issue that has triggered you previously. Other things I’ve noticed deeper in my experience, from the past to now, is more focused concentration, more stillness and peace in my movements. Focus has been the biggest, which I think opens more concentrated flow. ‘Not giving up’ is another. I can push through more difficult situations, be in my stillness when others model my own more difficult challenges, I too, found very hard to overcome.

Even here in these posts there is opportunity to practice equanimity by the response others give. The practice everywhere you are builds a greater ability to balance faster.

Focus becomes interesting, because often you’ll see how readily you can seperate focus into what the mind is wanting you to focus on, rather than dropping deeper into the body and letting the fullness of you and what is there move you differently than perhaps where the mind wanders and wants to focus.

Their is immersion in this way. And not only are you allowing the other or experience to be as it is, your opening to it through a deeper practice of yourself with what is.

And this them gifts you with concentrated focus and more stillness.

Untraining and training at the same time you might say.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 18 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by sky

Jhanas are definitely an interesting subject and different Buddhist Schools seem to see them in various ways, what amuses me is that they all agree that 'Jhanas are contained entirely within the mind '

There are also the four supra-mundane jhanas ... the third of which is "nothingness" which is also described in Kabbalistic literature as well as in other wisdom traditions. Is that still "contained entirely within the mind"?