Is there an ideal "time" to do it?

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by ReturningMoon

Hi everyone. To be honest I much prefer meditation at night before sleep.
So do you have a certain time of day you prefer doing it or do you just do it whenever?

I prefer to look at meditation now as my moment to moment practice so it’s not so much making space for it but rather become it as a lived practice off the mat..

In this way, I’m consciously aware of what is in me, with all life happenings.


As an example..
I know people who pour hrs into meditation yet get them behind the steering wheel and someone cuts them off, they lose it.

It’s in those moments I like to notice stuff in me seeking attention, if not, then I use it as a marker of grounded presence..

Because I’ve always done this as life itself, I tend to flow more with life as it is. By being in this way, I’m allowing and present in myself continually open and aware.

[Starman]

Gem, I try to be accommodating, as it is my experience that everything I have encountered in this life, better or worst, I have been able to use for my further growth and development.

I had a great teacher, a Guru who had a lot of integrity, love and shared a lot of darshan with me. As excellent as he was, once I connected with my inner teacher and drifted away from my outer teacher, my inner teach taught me some things that refuted what my outer teacher had said to me. Any good teacher in this world will help you nurture the relationship you have with your inner teacher.

Morality is a matter of opinion; it is an interpretation and there are so many interpretations out there. I do not dismiss things that I know nothing about, but I do know something about yoga. I have been around yoga teachers and in yoga classes, I have also learned from Hindu Mahatmas and Buddhist Lamas, almost got a Masters Degree in Buddhist Psychology from the Naropa Institute in Boulder, Colorado.

Today it is called Naropa University and it is the birthplace of the “Mindfulness Movement” in the U.S. I met Chogyam Trumpa Rimoche there back in the 1980’s, a very wise Lama who by all earthly standards of morality was also an alcoholic. Ram Dass had a lot of wisdom also but if we are talking about morality, he frequently took LSD, which some may consider immoral.

Mahatma Gandhi, the founding father of an independent India, who is revered worldwide as a spiritual icon, slept with young underage females who were virgins while he was married, and his wife allowed it. Although he reportedly he did not have sex with those girls, he just liked their virgin energy. Still some might find that immoral. I try not to stand in judgment of teachers as we are all teacher and students simultaneously. As the Christian Bible says “let those without sin cast the first stone.“ Notwithstanding what Catholic priests have been accused of.

It is not about what I condone or do not condone, it is about my desire to not dwell in duality. Meditation is far removed from duality and with practice it can give us a perspective of oneness. I was a college professor and used to judge people all the time, the same when I was a mental health therapist, but today I am retired and have for the most part left that domain, but not completely.

There are some spiritual teachers who go crazy with divine madness. A good read on this is titled “Holy Madness: The Shock Tactics and Radical Teachings of Crazy-Wise Adepts. Holy Fools, and Rascal Gurus.” Not everyone who transcends this physical world can maintain the integrity expected in this physical world. Following the mind is one thing and disconnecting from the mind (thoughts) is something different.

https://tricycle.org/magazine/holy-m...-rascal-gurus/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_madness

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Starman

madness

Starting with morality, it's subjective, but not an opinion. It pertains to truthfulness and kind or malicious intent. If one understands this as it happens within themselves, they see a that it reflects on the ways in which which they cause suffering of their own making and extend that to other people.

I'm not into justifying the misbehaviour of anyone, especially not in terms of being the crazy master. I've seen it all before, the intoxication, gluttony, sexual misconduct, rupturing relationships, betrayal, admonishment, kiddy diddling and abandonment. Pretending it's actually good, actually calling it wise, and glorifying it as virtue in enlightenment is buying into the whole con.

This is not 'anything goes'. The overly accommodating stance indicates a weak ability for discernment, and people are different, but everyone has to draw the line somewhere or they'll soon find the harmful entering their space. So many people go to these sorts of schools and come to grief, and then, the master is revered while the victim is abandoned because the followers have invested too much in the ruse to see that they have been misled into complicity and manipulated into being appalling.

Now I see it. We have to say morality is an opinion so we can justify the perversion that comes with crazy 'wisdom', otherwise it wouldn't work. I'm afraid that the premise itself is invalid, so although the reason is logically consistent, the premise it is based on isn't true.

Contrarily, morality is the bedrock and foundation of meditation practice. Truthfulness is a critical component, and one has to be sober to make their way. It's an arduous path to go on and there are a lot of temptations to lead one astray, just as Christ was tempted by Satan and Buddha by Mara and his daughters. On the path you find out the ways you are distracted and mislead by you own cravings and aversions. You have to understand the difference between what you really want and what is for the best. Behaving according to what is more than your desire and cravings and what you are adverse to - that's fundamental to morality.

It's no easy thing and no one is completely sure, but in self-awareness one still knows if they are doing right or wrong, like deceiving someone to take advantage, forcing impositions sans consent, coercing and creating false impressions to manipulate people and so forth, is the way to erode trust, which pertains to the truth that lies at the heart of moral dilemmas.

I'm sure others will dance around the crazy enlightenment pole, as if it's actually nice, but that's not my kinda party...

[Miss Hepburn]

2-3 sentences only when quoting other members.

[Starman]

Gem, thank you for sharing your perspective. You stick with your point of view and I’ll stick with mine. I really do not care for mental construct discussions in duality, and I am not on this forum to convince others to see things my way. I am just here to share my experiences, which I have. Peace and good journey go with you.

[Native spirit]

There is no best time to meditate as this title says it is an
It as an Individual choice.
Please keep these posts polite.


Namaste

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Gem

Do you know because you are experienced in yoga or is this something you thought of, read about or justify in you own mind? I don't know about it. I read a few things and watched teachers on you tube, so I could repeat the stuff I heard of, but I can't say anything from the standpoint of understanding.

I have been studying and practising various forms of yoga for about 45 years. That has been the major focus of my adult life. So I guess I do have some experience in it. Whether that qualifies me to make any comments is another matter.

I must admit that I never watch any teachers on Youtube, but there is probably a lot of good stuff out there.

Peace

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Starman

I met Chogyam Trumpa Rimoche there back in the 1980’s, a very wise Lama who by all earthly standards of morality was also an alcoholic. Ram Dass had a lot of wisdom also but if we are talking about morality, he frequently took LSD, which some may consider immoral.

I am currently reading From a Mountain in Tibet, the autobiography of Lama Yeshe Losal Rinpoche. He fled Tibet in 1959 with Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche and regarded him as a close friend, spending a lot of time with him in India and later America. He has much to say on the apparent contradictions of Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche who by all accounts was a brilliant teacher but also an alcoholic and a womaniser, even after his marriage to a British teenager. He renounced his monastic vows by 1970 because he felt that wearing his robes created a separation between him and his students.

To be honest, I simply always thought that Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche just had a lot of unresolved issues, despite all his learning.

Ram Dass certainly took a lot of LSD when he was Richard Alpert working with Timothy Leary. But then he went to India and met Neem Karoli Baba (and gave him three tabs of powerful LSD which had no effect). Did Ram Dass continue taking LSD when he began teaching as Ram Dass? I was under the impression that he had stopped, but I really do not know.

The book you mention was written by Georg Feuerstein who has written many books on Yoga, and there is now an expanded revised version "Holy Madness: Spirituality, Crazy-Wise Teachers, and Enlightenment". Although I don't always trust Feuerstein's perspective on various teachers, and he may have been influenced by his own experiences as a follower of Franklin Jones aka Bubba Free John aka Da Free John aka aka aka.

When it comes to spiritual teachers and their methods the past 60 years have certainly been interesting.

Peace

[Starman]

iamthat, in my opinion teachers are fallible human beings just like everyone else, but I still think they have transcended a lot and have a lot to offer. There is a song by Aerosmith titled “Dream On,” and one of the lyrics are “learning from fools and from sages.”

I feel most people think a spiritual teacher is suppose to be infallible but that is not my perspective. I feel like if you are alive here on this Earth, regardless of mastery, you still have work to do on your self.

Although I do embrace that some masters take a birth, like the Dali Lama, who do not necessarily need to take a birth. They take a birth not for themselves but to help others, and they come into this world totally realized.

I have audio cassette tapes of Ram Dass where he talks about his LSD experiences, and also him getting drunk with Chogyam Trumpa Rimpoche. I feel like both of them were excellent teachers. As far as Georg Feuerstien is concerned I know very little about him and he most likely is biased by his own experience of teachers, as many other people are.

Like you, I am not a YouTube person either, although it seems some people are getting benefit from it. Like you, I am old school and have been on this spiritual path for more then 40-years also. I have read the teachings of many teachers, including Swami Sat Chit Ananda, Yogananda, and others, but these days I do not follow any one particular teacher.

Peace

[Redchic12]

After reading Gems and Starmans comments I feel that I can see both points of view as valid. Both make sense to me given the age/experience of we’re each of you are coming from.

I have felt like you Gem for many years regarding these so called gurus when I was your age but as I’m a lot older now (nearer Starmans age) I tend to be a bit more compassionate and understanding and less judgmental.

Just my thoughts of course.