Beginner's Guide to Meditation?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

It’s not so simple in my view, Gem ~ let’s say, as of your practice of watching breath, is it volition or non-violition?

Non-voltion. There's is no underlying desire to make it other than it is. If you then implement controlled breaths, counting/timing or chanting and the rest of the list, there is the underlying desire to make 'what is' into 'as you want it to be', and you exert the volition to make it happen.

The nuance is, there is unintended volition, and there is intentional non-volition.

Unintended volition: We are doing things habitually as tendencies, always in a state of aversion and desire, with reactions we never intended and aren't even aware of. All that is unintended volition. It's the arousal of desire impelling the volition to make it 'as I want it to be' which comes in the form of resistance, clinging and all that, which is basically desire or aversion, which incites the volition.and that's a incessant cycle.

Intended non-volition: On the other hand, you could be deliberate and determined to stop doing that, be more observant and self-aware so that you 'know just what you do' and cease the underlying urges to to exert unintended volition upon what just happens to be.

That just applies to non-doership. If people want to mantra and all the rest, it's all good - but non-doership cannot be the founding principle of such volitional meditation techniques.

[Unseeking Seeker]

@ Gem ~ Observer observing the observed, in this case, breath, the activity of this observation changes the observed (breath). This is not an original thought but a well known scientific principle.

Breath flows, our heart beats, blood circulates, without being noticed by the subject, in this case, in-form awareness.

If we deselect all objects, be it breath or thought, the stillness of presence becomes self-referral, renewing itself within itself, whereupon the layers of mind which create imaginary identity, these layers drop away, identity drops away, all imagined knowing falls off. In other words, we become or rather restore cognition of our being, as it is, which is self-existent light of Self.

Non volition is volition if chosen by mind. Mind must go.

There is no imposition. I offer these views as a suggestion and can affirm it is so from directly seeing, becoming and knowing.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by johnsonava

Hello everyone,

Any tips, recommended apps, or personal experiences would be highly appreciated.
Thank you in advance

I see meditation as a practice to let go fully of controlling what will be. Many people use techniques, tools, mantras, to still the mind, to build focus, to remain seated and still.

Ive used a lot of tools.

But how I see it now, with an ability to be present in myself more complete, is that this way of just letting go at each sitting, to allow what is be as it arises in you without force, without effort, you’ll begin to see and notice what your mind body moves through for you.

I don’t control now, but once I did and controlling process becomes it’s own battlefield with itself and it’s process. And like here you see the external reality reinforce it..


Reading through some of the shared comments here, I can feel the level of trying to defend or direct the how it should be done..imagine if they were all meditating in a room together with these thoughts arising? Again it’s just another step deeper beyond right and wrong..

To me that’s a meeting point you have to meet in yourself to overcome controlling the way. If you know yourself on the mat without thoughts controlling the best way, you’ll find the way that works for you, you’ll be observant to your own process and those needs however they play out in you and your body..

By no means am I an experienced meditator but I’m very experienced with understanding myself, my own process and the steps of becoming more open, clear and aware.

[Unseeking Seeker]

@ iamthat #20 ~ yes, the innate creativity of consciousness is in dynamic stillness. As such inclusion of everything rather than exclusion but without stagnation. The aspect of ourself which feels limited and confined and so seeks to expand, if it does so in a mood and mode celebratory, assigning no ownership to enableability, disappearing as it were, it is effectively a merging, a melding of head and heart, centering presence in unity where there is no inner conflict.

There is no paradox, save as assigned by interpretations of mind.

Words are dualistic, which is why we tend to go around in circles attempting to classify and label.

Here is a poem, I posted today on another thread. Enjoy!

Dance of polarities

before our heart murmurs
emotes effusing tender love
effulgence of soul’s radiance
manifests in form seeds of bliss
as an expression of consciousness
for eternity renewing its effervescence
in a singularity wherefrom arises duality
within the vast womb of boundless space
that pulsations of love, always self referral
reflect back onto itself rapture of divine union
of itself within itself since there is no separation

noticing the makings of the play of life underway
presence conspires with the universe in this game
that the beauteous dance of polarities in this realm
receptive to enigmatic currents of God’s magnetism
create by benign bliss burns fullness within emptiness
magically unfolding a plethora of love petals in our heart

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

@ Gem ~ Observer observing the observed, in this case, breath, the activity of this observation changes the observed (breath).

The breath regulates itself and requires no will. You just pay close attention and remain aware of what it feels like. If it's long and deep or if it's shallow and short then it is 'as it is'. If you want to control it or employ imagination with counting and timing you can exert will and make it 'as you want it to be'.

Non volition is volition if chosen by mind.

Because people are reactive and thereby exert volition unintentionally - avoiding, pursuing, resisting, clinging, yearning, desiring and being adverse, the general idea is to become conscious of such wildness of mind and cease doing that. That's intentional, but not volitional. It's the cessation of volitions.

Again, just saying that's just the way from doership to non-doership. If people rather an imagination based approach, what me worry?

[Starman]

Johnsonava, I distinguish between the experience of meditation and meditation techniques. Most people will just talk about meditation techniques and hopefully those techniques will give them a meditation experience.

There are lots of techniques and most usually settle on a particular technique. The point is after you are finish using a technique the experience of meditation should remain with you for some time.

Some techniques will help you sustain your meditation experience much longer after you are finish using the technique than will other techniques. Best to try and see what agrees with you, or gives you what you are seeking.

The experience grows the more consistent you are in using the technique. But with practice you can get to a point where you do not need techniques. Your meditation experience can eventually become part of you on a 24/7 basis, if you go deep enough when you are practicing.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Words are dualistic, which is why we tend to go around in circles attempting to classify and label.

On the contrary, I just explain the point I make and remain consistent without contradiction. If people raise any point with me, I simply elaborate to clarify my meaning. It seems to me the spiritualists are more inconsistent and they sound like what spiritualism is supposed to sound like, but if you discern what they say and listen properly, it doesn't really make sense. My main thrust in this "Beginners Guide" is listen to everyone, but one has to discern. Is the narrative consistent? Does it all add up? Is it reasonable or is it contradictory? Does it sound somewhat pretentious? Does it really make sense?

I listen to many meditation experts, and I hear many contradictions. Sometimes it sounds like a shower of rose petals that doesn't really mean anything. Other times it's uber-enlightenment posturing which makes me think someone is making an impression. Occasionally I hear a discourse that's clear, consistent and makes you go - yea, I can see how that works - such as your Gas Pump video. I bet that guy was trained the same way I was. Do you know where he trained?

One thing I forgot to mention before in my last post is, don't worry about rhetoric like observer and observed. It's doubtlessly true you are aware of what breath feels like. It feels like 'this'. That's all. The observer/observed story is an abstraction conjured by the imaginary mind. In meditation one can discern between the actuality of real-lived experience and the fabrications of the mind, and should one persist with the immediacy of awareness, such fabrications occur they are recognised for what they are.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

I see meditation as a practice to let go fully of controlling what will be.

I see it now, with an ability to be present in myself more complete, is that this way of just letting go at each sitting, to allow what is be as it arises in you without force, without effort, you’ll begin to see and notice what your mind body moves through for you.

I wish I could've said it that well (I'm a mechanical speaker).

I keep saying I'm NOT saying should and shouldn't be done. I just noticed a contradiction and was like non-doing is not doing, it just being aware of it 'as it is'. I don't want people to think I'm like 'do it this way' or something. I have threads on mindfulness that are more like mindfulness is like this, and not like that, but this thread isn't like that, so if people want to do some imaginary meditation method, or take the non-doing approach; more power to them.

[Starman]

Johnsonava, Sharing my experience here:

Meditation today is not practiced or viewed as in was in ancient times, or even in the recent past. It used to be that when a person wanted to learn how to meditate they had to go through a preparatory program before being taught how to meditate. That preparatory program often involved humbling activities.

I first learned how to meditate back in the 1970’s and I went through an aspirant program before I was taught meditation techniques. That aspirant program involved doing volunteer work, or selfless service, and listening to others talk about their meditation experiences.

The aim was to humble the ego before attempting to meditate. My preparatory, or aspirant program, lasted two months, and it was supervised by Mahatmas (spiritual teachers) who would determine when you were ready to learn meditation techniques.

Your meditation experience will only be as difficult as your ego is strong, or your mind is complex. The preparatory program lasted 6-months for some people; those who struggled with their ego. Learning how to meditate from a position of humbleness or humility, better helps to facilitate the meditation experience.

Humbleness also allows a person to almost immediately go deeper into the meditation experience. There have been many times where I have setup a spiritual retreat in my home, listening to spiritual music, watching only spiritual oriented DVD’s I had, or reading spiritual literature, while doing periods of quiet meditation. These in home retreats, which could last a day, a weekend, or longer, helped a great deal to deepen my meditation practice.

I would suggest that if a person just wanted to relax, they do not need to learn how to meditate, there are lots of other relaxation techniques, or even guided imagery might be more appropriate. Meditation is an ancient system which goes a lot deeper then relaxation.

[Miss Hepburn]

Hi Starman :), I'm thinking in addition to humility - the preparation would be for having
questions answered, doubts assuaged, so that when the person went deeper into meditation they would
not be confused by what they were experiencing? (Ha, or not experiencing!)

What I mean is: Doubt, impatience, disappointment, losing hope, confusion, even fear can all happen to a new meditator, imo.
Preparation, I think is very important!! Yes.
Also, having respect for the techniques being shown...instead of quickly discarding them as baloney.