Enlightenment, attachment and entanglement

[In Flux]

Originally Posted by iamthat

I am always a bit suspicious about these broad generalisations about men and women as there are so many factors involved.

To generalize is the point of statistics though :-). But we should always keep that in mind when we interpret the statistic.

[Starman]

The title of this thread “ Enlightenment, attachment, and entanglement.” In my opinion attachment and entanglement go together, but with enlightenment there comes fewer attachments and entanglements. Enlightenment frees us from attachment, and attachment often comes with entanglements. That is the nature of attachments, especially in human relationships. True enlightenment is very simple and offers the experience of exquisite freedom. In my opinion, if a person is involved in entanglements they most likely are not enlightened enough to avoid those entanglements.

[Redchic12]

Wow thanks for those comments Starman. They really made me stop and think about entanglement and attachments in my own life.

I realised that I have very little of them.

Maybe I’m on my way to enlightenment (hey I can dream can’t I) ha ha

[Starman]

Redchic12, my friend, yes, it is perfectly alright to dream, in fact one might say
we are all dreaming, some more then others. But there is no judgment about this.

I will never say I am enlightened, even though I have a lot of light in my life. Enlightenment
is a process with many stages which leads to the absence of “I” and an incredibly
fulfilling existence.

In my opinion it is an experience which we will all eventually experience and it does not
place one person above another person; it only brings us back to our most natural state
of being, a one-ness of being.

Redchic12, you have an excellent sense of humor. Joy and laughter opens our hearts, while
too much seriousness can shut us down.

[Redchic12]

Aww thanks Starman.

Now can i ask you what is the first stage and what is the second stage, in your opinion. I really would be interested or is it different for everyone?

Thanks.

[In Flux]

Hi Starman, I agree, entanglement and attachment are closely related. For me, the word entanglement expresses more clearly how I may get mixed up in something, like a feeling of disappointment after losing a game of chess (I deliberately chose a petty example, a real one though). You could also say I'm attached to the self-image of being good at chess. That's also a valid way to look at it, but for me it can be helpful to see it as "getting entangled with a negative emotion of failure". Clearly, a more enlightened person would not get entangled there (because they are not attached to the outcome of a game).

I also remember a dream in which I had a girlfriend (strangely, that's very rare for me to dream) and I remember a sense of delight having her around me, a sense of being nurtured by her presence (like a person who is cold and warms by a fire), but also a sense of dread realizing how this delightful feeling was setting me up for a painful experience in the future. This is where I clearly see the connection between romance, attachment and entanglement.

I think a state of being in which we don't need a lover, but still feel joy and connection to the world is the best state. At the same time, it's hard for me to imagine that state, because the need for intimacy would either have to be absent, or met otherwise. I would describe intimacy as an experience of being very open towards someone: not hiding anything, and not looking away from anything, and seeing the beauty of someone while also seeing and accepting their flaws (without being that bothered by those). I think when someone has an awakening experience then they suddenly have a new perspective in which they don't need a lover or friend to meet this need for intimacy. I wouldn't say that they are meeting their need for intimacy in a new way (or maybe they do, I have no clue about that), but it does seem like this awakening experience solves the problem of being attached to romance (for example, I very much enjoyed listening to Jac O'Keefe's journey, and she describes how the need for romantic relations fell away for her at some point). Sorry for rambling a bit, this is just my train of thought :-).

[Starman]

Redchic12, It is different for everyone, some are born or maybe even most are born, enlightened. Most children, in my opinion are born with divine wisdom, their light is shinning brightly, then comes their decent into the knowledge of this world, and a moving away from innocence and divine wisdom. Our indoctrination process to this world and human culture.

So enlightenment and how many stages a person might have to go through depends on how far they have moved away from their core, their center. For some the process is quicker then for others. Each person carries a different amount of baggage that they need to unpack or let go of.

Although, in my opinion, it is necessary to go into the depths of ignorance and despair just to arise again renewed in that same self which we may have abandoned. The link below goes to a free book titled “Initiation,” by . Elisabeth Haich. I read this book back in the 1980’s; its’ about a woman who shares her journey of being initiated into the light after going through tremendous struggle, and she realizes that her struggles were necessary.

She talks about how everything we go through in the darkness is part of our initiation process into the light. One might say that the darkness, and all that we suffer in it, is the first stage of enlightenment, as there would be no need for enlightenment if not for the darkness. All of us are going through stages of enlightenment right now but I don’t believe in a labeled roadmap for us to follow. The stages of enlightenment present themselves to you as you enter them.

The road back to our deeper being is wide open and clear, it is only cluttered with our baggage. Divine laws are written in our heart at our core, and we intuitively know the way home. It is a full circle journey. All of our human journey is a circular upward spiral into enlightenment. It is not linear; everything blends into everything else. We travel out of the darkness by intuition and letting go, including letting go of any perceived roadmap, regardless whether that roadmap be religious or spiritual, in my opinion. Trust and faith are very important on this journey.

Book Link:
https://houseoftruth.education/files...Initiation.pdf

T.S. Eliot quote:
“We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know that place for the first time.”

[Redchic12]

Thanks for that Starman. I understand what you have said.

Thank you so much for that link. I will certainly read it.

[Starman]

In Flux, learn from this experience, and understand that you can not learn how to have healthy relationships by avoiding relationships. You sound like a young guy, so unless you plan on living a monastic lifestyle, which means no sex, then don’t give up sex. Although I will say in my opinion sex should not be the main ingredient in your relationship. Learn how to be a friend and companion first, and then become a lover. The problem is that lots of guys, and gals, become lovers too quickly. I have done that also, and if you wear your heart on your sleeve that’s a good way to get hurt. If you are going to have sex know what you are getting into and don‘t have any expectations. Wish someone would have told me that when I was younger. Hang-in there!

[Maisy]

Human's are social animals that do better in groups. Happier and so forth. We come from the great apes that live in groups. Cat's are happy alone.