Other people

I have noticed something already during childhood and ever since then too with other people. I always found it sort of peculiar that we are either fore or against on this one.

It is, if I should use my parents first of all. My mom said to me that one time she had this huge fight with my dad and he left and they were not living together at the time, and she had arranged before a beautiful dinner for them to eat. For some reason (this made logic to her) she made then a lunch-bag, and she took a cab (I'm guessing she was not 100% sober at the time) and she dropped it off outside his front door, rang the bell (so he would open) and then told the driver to drive her back home. I guess she thought he still has to eat, right?

Now to my dad's reaction…according to her she was surprised (and floored) that he took so much importance to what he thought other people might think about her behavior that evening. What the driver thought. And she was like are you more concerned about what a driver, a stranger, someone you have never met, someone I will most likely never meet again - what he thinks? Or what he doesn't think? So you care more about that driver's feelings than mine? (He was on the job, he got paid, she had actually done that driver/his company a favor by even hiring a cab so I am guessing his feelings didn't get hurt. Not like my mums).

What I myself have noticed is that some people put so much importance to what they might think a bunch of strangers they have absolutely no strings attached to, that can't do nothing either fore or against them - what they might think.

As for me, if i should use 2 examples, one boyfriend I had, he honestly did not care a rat's eye for anyone. He was a psychopath. But he did care about image. I care about people. I don't care about image. People are gonna think what they want anyhow. One of the things I did when leaving his world, at the split up, was to decide that I am just going to leave our world to him - all alone. He will have all these people to himself. I will not say a bad word about him. He can keep them all. He can keep his 50 or more masks to disguise who he really is. I figured the less this boat gets rocked the better it is. He, I learned, would then suddenly have the time (he who had no time before, the months before we split up as he was so busy with all these other important people and activities and I was invisible at home, if I was even at home, I don't think he noticed) to strategically work through a bunch of these people just so they would like a marionette go to me and deliver these different messages of his. And he had also during this journey of course created a story. It wasn't a true story. And it was so that he succeeded in making people feel sorry for him. Even if he had been the one to initiate the split. They felt sorry for him. They didn't feel sorry for me. I just stayed out of that game. It was one of his specialties really - to manipulate other people and to make other people know my business or not, even years later I came to realize he was still doing that and he wasn't even in the room. He had his little spies placed all over the room. He had after initiating the split at some point suddenly decided he wanted me back and would use this strange campaign of at first trying to boss me, scare me back, use his "authority", power (which he had none of at the time, I wasn't his marionette no more) to then try to speak great words of love and missing me and taking the blame for everything (he had one time too taken the blame, and then told me that it was basically an act, he did not think he had done anything wrong then and I was to be punished for having been "disobedient" I guess, again and again, so I knew from experience even if he was saying nice words to me - what was gonna come sooner or later. I was afraid of him so I got this sort of built in expectation anxiety or what it now is called, each time I went against what he wanted me to do, afraid to be punished, s he would punish me a lot in all sorts of ways while we were together, but people didn't know that of course. if i one time tried to say something to what I thought was my friend that friend immediately jumped to his defense. It was really messing with my brain at the time. I really was questioning my reality, it was as if he and the rest were just gagging up on me and I did not dare to say anything else).

One other example is my current luv. It has us colliding at times. He too had this thing - and may still have it, the future will tell, about what he thinks other people might or might not think about something, and he takes that as more important than if he has hurt my feelings, and take about zero consideration to my feelings. Then again I know him and I know he does not care about all these other people, and if he does care about some bunch of those people he cares in reality more for me. Yet he has done it, again and again. He is very much into that you should adapt and read off the room so you should not do anything that nobody else does, as if it is them to say it is OK or not. Even if you were to just do it and not notice a response either positive or negative it is as if it is still so important to not do that. The psychopath, he was something similar. He would watch people in silence. He was no narcissist - he did not want nor need to be the center of attention. And then both the psychopath knew about himself that even if he could read people there were some things he couldn't and that was what he had me there for, I was suppose to signal something, so he would not take it too far, and one time I deliberately didn't because I wanted that person to see who he really was and honestly because it wasn't my job, and he then got angry with me because of that and said "Why didn't you stop me?!" and I said "Why didn't you stop yourself?". Something similar has been going on with my current luv in the past as he would take things too far, joking, and I would have to like put my hand on his leg or something (sitting next to him) as he clearly could not tell he was taking it far more than acceptable, someone else he was directing these jokes at were getting hurt. He has yelled at me before, the classic being "you're so sensitive!", but at the same time he has understood when I signal something that it's time to stop.

How can it be so different?
So far what I have discovered, and I could be wrong, is that the people who in all honestly, deep down, do not really care that much about other people - they do care a great deal more that these strangers might think (or not). In my book it should be the other way around? Or am I seeing this wrong?

[FallingLeaves]

i call it empire-building... the desire to agree with and be agreeable to the most number of people possible. So that individuals don't matter even if one is close to them, one is more interested in how one perceives oneself to be seen by society at large... That is another problem I've had sigh...

edit...
and yeah your way of seeing things is more healthy...

[lostsoul13]

Strangers are just noice- white noise… help us fill the streets and create hustle and bustle—- nothing can be stranger than focusing on something that has no value… regardless #FallingLeaves states it well - empire building… I couldn’t care nonetheless either.. but I try to still be kind to strangers (but I grew up knowing not to talk to strangers) another thing can be for power struggles - I know I’m at conflict with power and personal power- I am the only authority in my life but it can seem I lack preservation …empire building is on my too do list!!

Hi Fallingleaves and Lostsoul13! You make good points I think :)

It seems to me the people that will go "but what will the neighbors think" are the one with more fragile egos.

I can be insecure and before when younger more insecure sometimes, but still I never cared about what all these strangers might think or not and I def did not think strangers were more important than a person I love is.

I look at my current now with "new eyes" a new perspective than I did before when I was caught in the storm, it has been a long process, years of it. I didn't know. I remember I came to this forum to ask for help really to try to understand and people has been very helpful. In my own reality I did not dare to ask anyone.

When I was in another relationship with a psychopath even my friends became ours and I would never say anything bad about him or our problems. I would never say anything to my family. Nobody knew. I think I felt as if I would be disloyal to him if I had. People have told me overall so many secrets I will never reveal no matter what. I was afraid of any potential consequences, how he would react if he found out.

I came to understand that even as he was so callous really with his true regard for people, and how he treated those who were suppose to be closest to him, and instead was so eager for "new blood", new people, that those were his priorities. Even if he must have been told growing up at least that that's not the way to go. You don't put strangers or close to strangers or new friends before you do your loved ones. You know your own priorities. He didn't. These were his priorities. I often felt, particularly the months before, as if I stood in his way, that he was easily irritated by my presence alone, yet he had asked for it. Now looking back he was asking me favors to do for his friends or him, as I think he understood that they all liked me or they wanted it done and so then he could look good because I did something, not that he did it (he was lazy).

When we were splitting up and afterwards I still never said anything bad about him. It was while doing that I understood the messages he was sending me - that he would use people like that, manipulate them. At first I just thought OK he must think I am saying bad things about him and I wasn't. With the few breaks ups I have been through I haven't said bad things about my exes to anyone in real life. I have said things like "It hasn't worked out", "I don't know" or "this is what he said" - because that was what he said when he broke up with me.

In the few breaks ups I have not felt as if I wanted them back because I thought the way they behaved themselves was simply not something I would want in "My man".

With my current, again, during all our troubles, I never - just once - just one time - I confided in someone. It was about a disagreement we had had and at the time he was with his first family and his parents were on "his side" and they more or less tried to force me to think differently and adapt, and he just looked indifferent really, I was completely minored as a mom at that incident. As I was to confide to someone, and I later told him (that person had agreed with me), he got angry with me how I could have done that. That I made him look bad. I then said to him but did you not confide into your parents - were not your parents and you ganging up on me or did I imagine that? How do you think that felt for me? Who was in my corner? Were you in my corner? No you were not. So yes this time, this only time, I have confided in someone, for guidiance and help, and if you want to be angry about that you be that. I don't care. If I were you though I would be more concerned to what you are doing to this relationship - but go ahead, you care so much about what some other person think of you, that I make you look bad. How do you make me look in front of your family? But that's ok. Its always OK to treat me badly isn't it? It's OK to treat me this way only I never do you. I have always looked out for you when you have been with my family and with my friends. Not you. God, we have had such fights... I really do try to not go back in time and think about it as I get all angry again.

I understand now that his tough fasade, his though face,really, and the silence for me to fill in the blanks...that he was the one insecure - or shy really, at social gatherings, and that was why he was everywhere and nowhere at the same time. People did not even understand we were a couple, they always assumed I was someone's friend and that was why I was there, and I would look around and I would see that there were no mistakes with other couples, just our little family. They either thought I was single with kids or that I didn't bring my man. They did not understand what part of the family I represented. It was one blooper after another. And when I explained no, I am so and so - and he (his name) is so and so - they would have that look of surprise to them. And he would say once we got in the car again Oh thank God that's over with! Now we can just go home and be alone!
One time he called me out partying with friends and said over the phone that he wanted me there, and once he got home he said how he really missed having me there, and I was like what? when I am there - you are nowhere to be found. what do you mean you miss me when I'm not there?

I did not care about what other people thought, that they did not understand we were even a couple, but I did understand that he was minorising me by his behavoir, without understanding he was maybe. He could not understand the entire part where if he takes me into his world he could kind of consider to look out for me. But no. But then again he could hardly look out for himself, running around there like some frighten rabbit just counting the hours but having that tough, "cool" look to him. He would cut off from me - and that was what was bothering me but I too cut off from him. It was so early on we had this problem. And it just continued to be that way. I focused on others, and he - I don't know if or what he focused on to be honest. It was not that I was ashamed that other people did not understand that we were a couple, and a family, but that I was hurting over his behavior towards me. I also knew I could not do anything about his behavior. One time I did try. I said "Are you shy? I'm shy too. Could we be shy maybe together?", to try to get to him, me trying to say I miss you, at these gatherings, where do you go? Why do you leave me like that, or us? I suppose one is not allowed to call a guy shy...but I think that has been his problem the whole time.

He is way better these days, but we have only tried it few times as it is the pandemic and you are not suppose to meet in large groups and it has been smaller groups and lots of space. I don't really know what other people will think or not, if they will see a change and maybe they won't, and maybe they will, that has not been the issue for me, ever. I just did not like the disconnection between us. There was something broken with us.

[FallingLeaves]

as i was reading through that it came to mind that another problem I had was to take the significant other for granted once she was mine...

Nah, FallingLeaves, one should be able to take each other for granted, don't feel bad...strangely that is too what my luv would say as we were splitting up, that he thought so too, that he somehow had always believed we would grow old together, that he understood now how much he had taken for granted. But you really should do that - it is just that he cared more about what other people might or might not think, they were more important than I was. No crowd was ever more important to me than my loved ones. Then again I don't mind making a fool of myself, I have drop things and what not, accidents. But they way he reacted was as if had done something really wrong, and would surprise me with that kind of negative emotion, right at me, I've never been used to that before (oh yes I have, sorry, when I was in the relationship with the psychopath. With my first love - no, never. He would never ever be ashamed of me if and when I did something like that, then again he had the same attitude I had about other people, the strangers, the crowd, so we never had that kind of problem really).

[FallingLeaves]

thank you for saying that. That was a nice thing to say .