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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #581  
Old 06-08-2022, 10:03 AM
JoeColo JoeColo is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Colorado, U.S.A.
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Hi zorkchop, can you please either give a short refresher on the number of levels/planes/dimensions and very brief descriptions of them, or show where to read about them? You said there are levels between the Pure God Worlds and the Lower Psychic Worlds. I'm the most curious about these in-between levels, as I won't attain the former in this lifetime, nor will most who read your posts.

Also, if I may ask, what's the name(s) of the Teachings you refer to? Or, would that still be giving away too much?

I looked all through the titles of both indexes and didn't see one that looked to be about the subject of my first question.

JoeColo
  #582  
Old 06-08-2022, 04:01 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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JoeColo …

I’ve been pondering doing a bit more on the dimensions / planes … but I’ve got to figure out how to put in imagery into these posts first. Last time I tried it … the pix came out as big as a postage stamp. I want to figure out how to put something in that people can at least see. Sometimes computers still give me grief. ( LoL )

I’ve put a bit in about dimensions. It’s high on my list. I’ll get there.

- - o-0-O-O-0-o - -
  #583  
Old 06-08-2022, 06:47 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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QUOTE 580 EXCERPT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorkchop
Still Waters … I noticed on the direct quote from my post … you neglected to include the … “perhaps … just perhaps … “ which came directly before the sentences you quoted … since I was not trying to make anything out of either stance or position.
Trying to debate words such as “apparent” and “purity” and “self-imposed limitations?” and such … that approach belongs to the intellectual.
I checked back to your original post and you did indeed have the words "perhaps ... just perhaps" directly before the sentences that I quoted. You covered yourself well.

As for words ... any words ... belonging "to the intellectual", how do you propose avoiding the intellectual in posts on a forum such as this?

There have been more than a few occasions when I have had extraordinary communications ... without words ... such as for 3 hours with a Taoist Master in Chengdu China, another 3 hours with a sage at the Khumba Mela in India, and so on for lesser continuous times with others. It would seem the Zen koans at least attempt to take one beyond the intellectual on a forum such as this, and that is precisely why I started a thread on the Crazy Wisdom of the Zen Koans on this site in the Buddhist section.
  #584  
Old 06-08-2022, 07:57 PM
JustASimpleGuy
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For me this verse from the Kena Upanishad about knowing and not knowing says it succinctly and beautifully. There are a couple of paragraphs of commentary following the verse that expound on what is meant by knowing and not knowing.

https://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacreds...arama/kena.asp

II. The disciple said: I do not think I know It well, nor do I think that I do not know It. He among us who knows It truly, knows (what is meant by) "I know" and also what is meant by "I know It not."
  #585  
Old 07-08-2022, 02:49 AM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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Still Waters …

Avoid the intellectual approach?

I don’t. I don’t even try.

Just 2-3 posts above … I acknowledge the intellectual and the intellectual approach as a marvelous place to be … if individual contentment can be found there … as most often it is.

That’s why I’ve always said … these posts are for those who wish to move beyond … and that’s all. The “devoted” intellectual is *not* a candidate to move beyond.

That too is part of the game plan.

Just for the steadfast intellectual to even begin to suspect that something lies beyond the mental worlds … truly beyond them … is a major crossroads. Traditionally-used words do not do such a stance justice … nor real recognition.

I have always stated in so many of my posts … there is neither criticism nor judgment towards the intellectual approach. I would accept that there are many superb masters of the mental realms. They have my respect too.

And Still Water … did I actually “cover myself well” with a valid statement then … which still holds as a valid statement now? To take a very broad experience of stepping into the Pure God Worlds and then dissecting it and giving it various definitions so that differing religions and philosophies may call it “their own” is what has given these lower worlds most … if not all … of their traditions … experienced by various individuals who claim the experiences to be scared in one way or another and launch a new branch or variation of whatever. There’s nothing wrong with that … it’s the way pertinent information here is often dispersed.

Practices and reactions of an intellectual approach to dissect and misinterpret are what many finally get tired of … amongst other ways to continue the banter and challenge. It seems to go on and on and on. An individual often gets tired of that … and want to find “ways beyond” … which begins to build a larger understanding … which leads to … on we go.

And yes … you are right. The Zen traditions are often used to almost ridicule and flog the mental understandings … often resorting to seeming nonsense to lift reliance away from the mental realms. When one finally gets out there on that limb … they either use it as a springboard … or they wait for the limb to break … and then … ?

It has worked for many.

- - o-0-O-O-0-o - -

JASG …

What a word … maybe two … “to know.”

I’m not going to get into the middle of that one.

- - o-0-O-O-0-o - -

Last edited by zorkchop : 07-08-2022 at 04:00 AM.
  #586  
Old 07-08-2022, 12:17 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
For me this verse from the Kena Upanishad about knowing and not knowing says it succinctly and beautifully. There are a couple of paragraphs of commentary following the verse that expound on what is meant by knowing and not knowing.

https://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacreds...arama/kena.asp

II. The disciple said: I do not think I know It well, nor do I think that I do not know It. He among us who knows It truly, knows (what is meant by) "I know" and also what is meant by "I know It not."

  #587  
Old 07-08-2022, 01:18 PM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zorkchop
What a word … maybe two … “to know.”
It's probably one of those things that isn't obvious until it is.
  #588  
Old 07-08-2022, 02:39 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Quote:
The “devoted” intellectual is *not* a candidate to move beyond.
Oh, that made me laugh! You just came right out and said it!

I've always thought that...I call them Left Brainers...they just can not get out of that intellect.
It can get you far, tho...it serves it's purpose and is perfect for that person at that time.
I'm not putting it down....exactly ...it's just that, to me, it is a step...it gets
you to the end of the diving board, for sure, and that's good...but then you stay there...thinking and analyzing;
all part of the plan, yup.

And as Stuart Smalley, (a USA comedian), would say, " And...that's...OK..."
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Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru.


  #589  
Old 07-08-2022, 03:17 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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QUOTE 577 EXCERPT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by zorkchop

I will rarely … if ever … get into methodology. It would be incredibly irresponsible for me to do so. … if I gave methodology that took the individual into an area s/he was unprepared for … and that individual got themselves into trouble … I would have to take responsibility for that.


The subject of methodology does indeed raise some issues, as you have duly pointed out. However, that didn't stop some one like the Buddha from formulating some of the most insightful methodologies ever ... methodologies which serve as the basis for modern psychotherapy practices such as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction (MBSR). Buddha was very focused in his teachings and steadfastly maintained the Noble Silence when people asked him about God or raised metaphysical questions related to the afterlife and other realms of existence.

On the other hand, I've come across far too many people who theorize about metaphysics, God, and the other realms. When asked about their practices/methodologies, they often have very little to say but simply regurgitate what others have told them since they lack direct validating experiences of their own.

To each their own. People have to decide for themselves what works best for them as there is always some one available to provide what is perceived as needed.
  #590  
Old 07-08-2022, 03:40 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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QUOTE 588 EXCERPT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
I call them Left Brainers...they just can not get out of that intellect.
It can get you far, tho...it serves it's purpose and is perfect for that person at that time.
.it's just that, to me, it is a step...it gets you to the end of the diving board, for sure, and that's good...but then you stay there...thinking and analyzing;
I can relate to that completely as it took a Herculanean effort for years by one of my teachers to get me past my Phi Beta Kappa intellectualism ... and finally jump off the end of the diving board.

It was a frustrating intense process but masterful on the part of my teacher.
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