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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #561  
Old 14-07-2022, 02:41 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 683
 
Considerations 140B …

Sequence of manifested life …

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Dividing posts into two sections is not going to work out as planned. I will revert back to single posts … starting Monday.

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Thought itself … is quite neutral. What we think about and how we think about it … is completely another matter. And exactly *when* we have given a conceptual thought its own life … through focus and emotion … such thoughts from yesterday, last week, last month, last year, or last lifetime … can come about to bring situations and conditions into your life.

We bring about things by constantly thinking of them. Imagine then the harm
that one can do to themselves when he lets his mind go back over the past …
over an over again … moving into the things s/he dislikes. Life will go on
for them … multiplying and manifesting the same things again
and again and again in their life.

How often do we complain about something happening to us … about it happening *again* … what the heck is going on here !?!

LIFE is either directly trying to nudge you into viewing yourself a bit more deeply than you may have been doing … or … you may be balancing / resolving a karmic implication … or a combination of the two. I’m sure there could be other implications if the query were a bit more broad. These would be two very common undertones.

If the cause and effect of anything and everything we ever did was promoted and then balanced in a single day … the “Path” would be walked quite quickly. We would have instant feedback. It would be much more difficult to live from past life imbalances.

Understandably … there is so much top learn and so many levels or learning and understanding within all of this … it simply takes the many, many lifetimes to finally come to terms with it all. Yes … there *is* an “end point” to the game … but it’s not what most people believe.

All in all … our thoughts have brought us to where we are right now. You are most often the sum total of all you have ever been. You continue it for as long as it fulfills you … or … you continue it for a long as you refuse to confront it … and you eventually change it as you finally change your inner perceptions which will eventually be reflected outward … tomorrow … next year … or next lifetime. Everything is from the inside … out. All other entities are doing the same thing … all the way up to those lofty developed and learned Souls that assist in setting all of this in motion … or into Existence.

You … and only you … are responsible for your perceptions and belief system. Yes … we are constantly surrounded by tantalizing mental concepts and tidbits that draw us in one way or another. Still … your choice.

Free will has been stomped into the ground. Habit … rules.

How else are you going to learn the discipline and choices necessary to perceive beyond the traditional … into the more freeing principles of the Whole of LIFE … rather than the dissected parts of critical mental analysis … which is hypnotically alluring to the human state of consciousness. Many constantly seek like-minded conversation to support their personal belief that they are “right” … only to eventually find that to do so stretches the learning of necessary disciplines into lifetime after lifetime … seemingly endlessly.

More next Monday.

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A 90-post index is found at thread post number 370 … page 37

A second index for posts 92 - 120 is on page 51 … post # 501


If sincere … I will respond to private messages

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Last edited by zorkchop : 14-07-2022 at 06:37 PM.
  #562  
Old 18-07-2022, 02:12 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2019
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Considerations 141 …

As Far as It / They Go …


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A perspective that really assists in accepting life around you is to deeply and heartily understand and accept that … once again … everything is a progression around you … a sequential advancement … a growth into the Greater … an enrichment … of increase … from lower to higher … from basic to advanced … and in the Lower Psychic Worlds … from simple to complicated … and yes … from the “dual” to the “non-dual” as part of the “end game” … eat individual playing their part according to their own design and level of acceptance.

I have followed some of the links that have been put in the board … and most of the discussions or discourses are correct in what they proclaim … as far as their set of teachings or their understanding go. This is neither a judgment or criticism. Everything develops to where it is right at this moment. This should not be a mystery to any.

All the religions … all the philosophies … all the metaphysical speculations and practices … teach what they know and believe to be true … beyond which there is a desired and protected stance or view concerning anything beyond the current viewpoint. Very, very few can see beyond their current state of consciousness. Some can recognize what is “behind” them. Most just see a “difference” between this viewpoint and that … usually their own verses everyone else.

My point being … people will debate and discuss right up to the limits of their perspective and understanding of Life. To expect anyone to go beyond that level … that will not happen. It’s no one’s “fault” that they cannot see. They just haven’t developed the level of consciousness to be able to see … what is beyond where they are at the moment. The protective aspects of the mind kicks in … and again … most fight more stringently to stay where they are rather than apply that energy to moving forward. Such is the nature of the Path.

This carries right up to the favored and promoted perspectives of the day. Many web sites feature individuals that put forth a favored realization … such as the position of NOW … as they suggest that if and when the individual can stop mind and just be here NOW … this somehow automatically advances you to being aware of the Whole as IT is at the moment. Many try to promote this stance as being in some “presence” or “expression” or whatever the term is that they wish to use for it … suggesting a highly mystical level of viewpoint … most of the time suggesting that they are automatically “beyond the mind.”

No doubt … the slowing and stopping of the mind *is* a long-sought advancement … but it is only a step. There is as much … if not more … to learn beyond that position as they is / was previously.

If you are walking down a road … or anywhere … and you suddenly stop and stand still … you are not automatically transported to your end destination. If you are driving down the road and take your foot off the accelerator and let the car slow to a stop … you are not automatically transported out of the car to anywhere. If you fly in a plane and land at the airport … that does not automatically transport you to your final destination.

Stopping mind has been so highly promoted that many consider this to be a finale … and end goal. Without a doubt … it is a monumental task to take on … however one wishes to define that … and being able to do it for even a few moments … is a prize.

But to sit / stand there without thought … automatically takes you nowhere else … save for standing where you are … in mental silence. It is impossible to do without focused effort … and once accomplished … there is time for recognition and celebration … and then it is time to move beyond. It takes time … lifetimes … and discipline … the lack of which has allowed the mind to ramble on as it does. Lack of personal discipline allows mind to “out-create” Soul while Soul is encased in the Lower Psychic Worlds schoolroom.

There is no way out of this … it is so designed because it works. But … and it is a big “but” … there are fabulous discoveries and adventures to take part in along the way. To discover the religions … the philosophies … the material accumulations … the relationships … the emotional highs and lows … the experiments and hesitancies of life in the Lower Psychic Worlds … for pure adventure and emotional excitement … and the opposite of each … there is no greater time on the Path. The living in and interaction with the Pure God Worlds does not involve the highs and lows of the emotions … although there is often a contented bliss … which is as odd a word to define as “love” … without involving an emotional tie to the definition.

Everyone is where they “are” … and to nudge someone to see beyond where they are is futile. If you are a high school graduate … what is the point of trying to nudge a freshman or sophomore to see up to your level? They can’t. It’s more your fault for trying to nudge them to do that. The trick is recognition of where someone “is” … and the easiest way to do that is to see where someone “stops” … or puts up their individual battle line. Each subject, topic, feature has its own battle line … beyond which the entrenched individual cannot see beyond. Reincarnation suggests … that each and every one will move beyond where they are … but just not … “now” … unless the individual in question wishes to develop and put in the effort to truly move beyond where they are … and few … very few … do that.

To attempt to lead someone to “see” beyond their state of consciousness is more often than not … futile. Most entrenched intellectuals will take clear offense at this … since the true intellectual is highly trained and geared toward analysis … which the design of the mind and of Lower Psychic Worlds phenomena are designed to utilize as a means of “learning” or defining one from another. Becoming a true intellectual is one of the safest paths to follow in the Lower Psychic Worlds. The individual gains status, power, control, and monetary gain from following such a path. Data knowledge is clearly highly usable and necessary in the worlds. I do not promote a negative outlook towards the intellectual. Many times they are superb people and are clearly advantageous to have around. For the vast majority of the Path … the intellectual approach is the chosen direction … fueled by the emotions … subtle or strong.

The best anyone can do is to offer. Most of the time the offer is refused. In the end … LIFE is the greatest of teachers.

There is no shame in being where you are. A sixth grader is not supposed to wrestle with high school physics. All things … in their own time.

More next Monday.

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A 90-post index is found at thread post number 370 … page 37

A second index for posts 92 - 120 is on page 51 … post # 501


If sincere … I will respond to private messages

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  #563  
Old 23-07-2022, 12:46 AM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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Most of what I have suggested in the posts are strictly for those who wish to perceive a bit more broadly than the intellectual stance … and perhaps wish to move beyond mind as the main instrument of perception or discernment. Mind is the tool for analysis and comparison of relationships between things, objects, activities, individuals, etc. One thing is this way … the other is that. To distinguish between forms. That is what mind does. Dissect everything into parts … so that they can be understood.

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Last edited by zorkchop : 23-07-2022 at 04:22 PM.
  #564  
Old 25-07-2022, 02:20 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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Considerations 142 …

The Only Self-Consciousness …

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I usually stay two to three to four of these posts ahead … mostly because they take time to develop … and if I get “stuck” on a topic and cannot complete it … or if it just doesn’t seem “complete” enough to post … I might miss posting on occasion … and I don’t want to do that.

Because of what has been popular in discussions as of late … especially in the Non-Duality / Spiritual Development / Spirituality sections of the board … I feel compelled to put this post in now … taking the place of what I was to post. For the last few months I have often visited the links offered in the Non-Duality section since this forum topic seems to have the most intellectuals gathered in one place and focusing on what is popular at the moment. I’ve followed the links to a variety of online sages … both East Indian and otherwise … and I’ll be offering considerations based on a lot of what is being taught or offered by these various people while continuing to stay mostly generic so I do not end up pointing finger at anyone. Everyone discusses what they currently believe or know. Everyone is where they “are” and it’s taken a long time to “get there” … online sage or otherwise.

The one mislead … or trap … that a lot of the lofty mentors are promoting right now can be easily stated … and it is pivotal … it is keystone … it is foundational … and the mislead can send you off on tangents that will take scores of lifetimes to discover the need for correction.
The easily stated foundation is this … Soul Itself is the *only* aspect of all of Existence … Pure or Absolute … of the Lower Psychic Worlds … or otherwise ( whatever that might be ) … Soul Itself is the *only* aspect that is self-aware … is aware of It’s own existence as related to all else … form or formless … basic or advanced.

The human state of consciousness is devised that we must survive within these Lower Psychic Worlds by being protected with sheaths or bodies or coverings. If you were to drop the human body into the North Pole … it would need clothing to survive or it would freeze in a matter of moments. It could not survive the harsh conditions there without protection. It is the exact same thing with Soul Itself. Soul Itself is of such purity upon individual creation … ( when each individual Soul is created ) … It could not survive down in the schoolroom of the Lower Psychic Worlds … and so … protective layers are thrown around It as It descends into the schoolroom.

The bodies of the Lower Psychic Worlds in the human state of conscious or experience … the physical body … the emotions … and the levels of mind … are all mechanical in nature. They operate off reactions … learned reactions … and learned preferences. We might physically see / hear / taste / smell / touch via the physical body but these are all tactile responses to what the physical body experiences and are neurotically sent to the mind for analysis or for immediate reaction. It’s not going to take a couple of seconds for you to figure out that a hand on a hot stove needs to be pulled up and off. It is an immediate reaction … carried out by the nervous systems contained within the body. The emotions are emotive responses often for the choices or decisions we make. “I feel good about this … “ or … “This is painful and frightening.” The emotions are the gasoline to the mental fires. We mentally make our decisions or choices and have an emotional response tacked on to each.

The mind is not aware of itself … or … the mind is not self-aware. The mind cannot “observe” itself. The mind is merely the device given to us to analyze, categorize, and judge our experiences. WE train our own minds … to interpret and believe what it will accept as valid and true at the moment. Soul Itself is the driver of all of these bodies … but Soul Itself is unaware of Itself as a self-aware entity … which … the the exact reason for this entire schoolroom scenario in the first place. That is what Soul Itself is here to learn. Again … Soul Itself is not mind … and mind is not Soul Itself.

Since Soul Itself does not know this distinction … Soul Itself accepts the mental approach as the only approach … and initially sets out on the path singularly following this direction. This approach is all Soul Itself has ever known. Mind … initially … rules. Mind is the power. Mind is the tool of choice. If you are going to build a house and are given the choice of tools between a hammer or a set of binoculars for sight … you’re going to pick the hammer every time. Soul Itself had no choice in beginning but to use the mind to understand what is going on around it as personal experience.

WE … program our own mind. WE … teach it everything it believes and accepts. WE … being the individual. Until the very last few steps on the path … WE use mind to understand mind … and that cannot be done. In no time at all we learn that mind can … and does … conjure up ANY-thing … preposterous or otherwise. If we mentally want to believe that our own mind as an awareness of its own and can watch itself … no problem. We can believe that … and see where it gets us. If we mentally want to believe that if we stop mind … this ability automatically launches us into some kind of incredibly lofty state or “essence” or “purity” or “nowness” or “absolute” or “non-duality” or whatever … we can mentally believe that.

If you wish to believe that “I am not my thoughts … “ … then you are beginning to put the pieces together. You are beginning to draw a distinction between mind itself and Soul Itself … but the errant thoughts that continue to flood the mind are remnants of patterns you set up so long ago … they also hint at just how powerful a tool mind is … it shows your discovery of mental discipline and focus … and more often than not … you are paying the price for allowing the mind to absorb and accept any captivating little thought that has floated about for eons.

Whose fault is that? The individual that believes.

But admittedly … you didn’t know. That’s what the schoolroom is all about.

There’s more to it than this … to the understanding of the distinction between mind and Soul Itself … but then … that would simply be mental definition and description. The bottom line … Soul Itself is the *only* aspect / entity / being / facet … that is self-aware.

Believe otherwise if you wish. It just might be adventurous to do so.

More next Monday.

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A 90-post index is found at thread post number 370 … page 37

A second index for posts 92 - 120 is on page 51 … post # 501


If sincere … I will respond to private messages

- - O-0-O-O-0-o - -
  #565  
Old 25-07-2022, 02:52 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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''The human state of consciousness is devised that we must survive within these Lower Psychic Worlds by being protected with sheaths or bodies or coverings. If you were to drop the human body into the North Pole … it would need clothing to survive or it would freeze in a matter of moments. It could not survive the harsh conditions there without protection. It is the exact same thing with Soul Itself. Soul Itself is of such purity upon individual creation … ( when each individual Soul is created ) … It could not survive down in the schoolroom of the Lower Psychic Worlds … and so … protective layers are thrown around It as It descends into the schoolroom.''

Never heard said this way...that was great!
__________________


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*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)

Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru.


  #566  
Old 25-07-2022, 03:49 PM
hazada guess hazada guess is offline
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Well explained,zorkchop.
  #567  
Old 25-07-2022, 04:31 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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Posts: 683
 
Mizz H … thanks. I wondered how I would explain it so it wasn’t just some ambiguous words putting the concept forward. There are real reasons for the “body coverings” and they aren’t put upon us just to mess up our lives.

Hazada … thanks. I’m going to do some work on more of a “how to” post for next week … a bit more on approaches one can use to begin to get all of this working a bit more strongly in ones life. It ought to be interesting. I’ve rarely put in such a post as what I want to put in next week.

On we go.

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  #568  
Old 29-07-2022, 05:37 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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I realize that the entire point of the schoolroom is to distinguish between Soul Itself and mind … but that is another issue altogether. At this point … just try to accept and realize that Soul Itself is the only “entity” that is self-aware … and that mind may *seem* to have an awareness all its own … but it doesn’t. Mind is constantly making choices via reactive patterns and habits … and most often does so instantly. It makes these choices with the precision of a machine … therefore … it seems as though it is “doing it on its own” … or … is self-aware. It is much, *much* easier to just let mind continue to call the shots. I understand that … and most people will do just that. Soul Itself is the one to “learn” in all of this. The mind, body, and emotions are tools we use to do just that.

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  #569  
Old 30-07-2022, 01:37 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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QUOTE 565 EXCERPT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
''The human state of consciousness is devised that we must survive within these Lower Psychic Worlds by being protected with sheaths or bodies or coverings...... .''

Never heard said this way...that was great!
That was actually the part of Zorkchop's post that also caught my attention most. It is an original refreshing way or presenting that point.

Here's the link to the whole part that you quoted as it's worth repeating:

https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...&postcount=565
  #570  
Old 01-08-2022, 02:15 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 683
 
Considerations 143 …

Probabilities …

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This one is a touch longer than most. I know many wish to have new information presented in very short installments. This is not one of those. I merely try to put forth a rather complete picture so each may understand the “why” of it and slide some puzzle pieces together.

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As I’ve lightly discussed before … mind can contradict anything … whether it is done out of ignorance … or as a result of being misled … or is done recreationally … or for the purposes of an ego stance … or to see if it can hold its own against an opposing view.

The point being … no matter the mental claim … mind can negate it … or find a way to reject it … whether the contradiction is beneficial or detrimental … correct or incorrect. Since the critical faculty is developed so intensely … especially in the human state of consciousness … contradiction is easy. One can contradict simply for the “fun” of it. It takes little to no talent simply to counter something or someone. It doesn’t have to be “true” or “provable.” It is simply a counter … often to cause confusion and to slow any forward progress in learning.

This is one of the prime reasons why relying on the mind to make alterations in ones perspective is such an iffy situation … because the minute you wish to take a stand … anyone … including your own mind … can disaffirm it and throw one into indecision. This is one of the reasons why the prime and ultimate defense of the mental approach is to stop the mind. If and when one learns to stop ones mind for any useable period of time … it certainly brings a respite from the mental chatter and is … without a doubt … a useable learned talent … but it of itself “takes you nowhere” automatically … but it IS a way to stop the indecision and the almost automatic contradiction. Just don’t let the mind do what it automatically does by stopping it and for the moment … you gain mental R&R.

There are online sages, gurus and teachers who will put forth any number of “answers.” Many of them combine words into a very vague composite which makes it almost unusable … in the sense you never know what your dealing with or what the “end goal” might be if it is not clearly understood / defined. Many people try to combine consciousness and awareness and make them almost the same meaning … when they are two entirely different facets. In fact … consciousness of itself is not a perspective … it is a viable facet or part of Life Itself. It is the sea within which all of existence resides … so to speak. Awareness is what we recognize or hold to within this sea of consciousness. It’s almost like trying to combine the ocean and the fish … making them the same thing … when they certainly are not.

Notice how very few … if any … of these online gurus tell you what to “do” after you get the mind to stop. They simply suggest dropping onto some kind of mental swoon and that’s it … you’ve reached the “ultimate” by whether word they are promoting or using as a definition / description at the time.

When one wishes to really make an attempt to sort through it all and build their own perspective upon which to form a real stand … one of the best approaches is to juggle possibilities … and determine probabilities. This helps you form that working intuition that you will use and rely upon forever. You might gather all the best possibilities together from many sources … such as it could be this or that or perhaps this too … and then give it some real study before narrowing it all down into a real probability … upon which to begin to personally and privately develop. To hold to it long enough to uncover if it is beneficial or not … to you. This is when you begin to experiment … developing the adventurous boldness and risk-taking.

Each individual determines the probabilities they must confront … and this can range all the way to the “probability” that reincarnation is an actual principle … to the slow-to-accept “probability” that the mind truly does complicate and stop advancement into higher levels of learning and understanding.

The mental approaches will rarely if ever give you a real direction … such as “Go Here” or “Do This” … because it can be easily contradicted no matter what it is. This ties the individual up for an incredible number of lifetimes.

And one of the very prime mental stands is …
one believes that they know … when they don’t.


In sense … this “point” on the path is the birthplace of the almost vague and elusive approach to LIFE that you will further and develop from here on in. One little-known point and rarely spoken about of this entire phase is that … as you leave the mental worlds … you will be given less and less “guidance” by anyone … or by most any entity … and when you finally reach the boundaries of the infamous 5th Dimension or the True Home of Soul Itself … upon entry and establishment there … you are then pretty much left on your own to further “figure it out” from there. No one is going to take you by the hand and pull you along. Very few will really come forward and say … now to get to the 6th Dimension … go do this.

There are reasons for this. Just to get into and established in the 5th Dimension … and I wish to make it clear that there are real, tangible, recognizable, and distinguishable “signposts” or “features” or “experiences” that one has the entering into this “area” … that again it is not a step of simple declaration. You know you are “there” by the experiences you have there … and they are more often than not … very clear. So … it is upon these talents that you continue to build and develop … within Soul Itself … that will that will get you further … but that is left entirely up to you. From that point on … Soul Itself will determine how and when to go further.

Secondly … all of this hinges upon working with LIFE IT-self. This is an intuitive, sometimes very vague … and any communication between you and LIFE IT-self uses very, very few … if any … definable words. LIFE doesn’t use words to communicate with you. By using your understanding of your part in it all … you pretty much set the course by knowing what would benefit the Whole … what would advance the Whole … by first knowing what the “Whole” might be … and then you just go do it.

I know this is just a bunch of very vague words that really tells you very little … if anything. In a sense … that’s my point. Entering into this area … you pretty much form this knowing understanding of what LIFE is … and you begin to work alongside IT … in a *very* different and recognizable way than you used when working in the mental area of the Lower Psychic Worlds.

This does *not* mean that you leave the mental approaches aside and never use them. Far from it. Most probably … you will still be incarnated into a physical lifetime ax you begin to develop this … and when “here” in the Lower Psychic Worlds … you use the mental approaches. It is mind that allows you to communicate with others here … lets you hold a job … be a part of a family … drive a car … etc. All of this begins to teach you how to live devotedly in two worlds … taking responsibility in both.

You pretty much accept that you are on your own … and it is the individual that is willing to take the risks, to leave the mental circus behind, and move forward in a bold and adventurous attitude … that will step further on the path. Mind will always tell you … don’t go further … don’t go beyond me … although mind will certainly to use such declarative words or phrases. It will accomplish all of this through your own personal apprehensions or fears. More often than not they will shake you to your core … which … is true … but it is to your *mental* core. It is still … at this point … that holds tremendous power. It can be a truly frightening part of the path.

Some might wish to believe that these are cheap shots against the intellectual stance.
Far from it … mental data certainly and undeniably has its place. In the Lower Psychic
Worlds there are clear rewards for using the mental approach. I acknowledge
and do not dispute that … and use mind myself daily. But the design of mind is
to compare, complicate, and trap. It is the “digging out” from the traps
of mind that teaches the most. Consider … how else is the
individual going to learn that?

More next Monday

- - O-0-O-O-0-o - -

A 90-post index is found at thread post number 370 … page 37

A second index for posts 92 - 120 is on page 51 … post # 501


If sincere … I will respond to private messages

- - O-0-O-O-0-o - -

Last edited by zorkchop : 01-08-2022 at 04:23 PM.
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