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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #31  
Old 28-10-2020, 12:15 AM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
Guide
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 683
 
Considerations Ten …

Personal Confessions 1A …

Before I go much farther with this I do want you all to know that I have truly and deeply shared your confusion, your frustration, your bewilderment, your bitterness, your total mystification … whatever you can possibly name … I have been there too … in figuring out just what “this” is all about.

I’m not here to gather followers … to convince when you don’t want to be convinced … to claim MY Path is the best … to see if I can sway in spite of resistance.

Through incredible and seemingly inhuman personal effort … I have taken a few steps into areas where many have yet to even consider … let alone visit. But on the way … I have held my clenched fists to the sky … wept buckets of tears … driven myself into total despair and worse … totally given it all up only to find out that I can’t … on and on and on.

I have heard the words I have spoken here … and the words I will put out in the future … I have heard them given to me personally in past lifetimes and rebelled.

Habits … BaH !

Mental patterns … BaH!

Belief systems and limitations … Nuh-Uh.

I didn’t want to hear it … I didn’t want to accept it. It’s too much … it’s beyond me … I can’t take it anymore … it’s not worth it.

Etc times wherever your imagination can take it all.

And so … you end that lifetime … and come back for another one … and somehow it seems just a little bit more familiar and therefore you’re just a touch more receptive to it.

And then you do that again … and again … and again … and …

Sometime there is a corner that you turn … “Hey - this stuff actually *does* make a bit of sense … “ … and … horror of horrors … “Wow … I really *was* limiting myself.”

And then you do that again … and again … and again … and …

And then … “Hey wow … that’s a mind game. That’s a mental con job. I can see the game and I don’t really know where it came from or how / why I set it up … but I don’t want any part of it this time around … or at least … I don’t want any part of it for the moment right now. That’s an old mental pattern that’s trying to convince me to see things *this* way when I know better than to accept it as that.”

And the old patterns lose their power … their ability to coerce … and you encounter an ongoing and slowly enhancing clarity.

Not mental.

Beyond.

How do you know?

The inner teachers become more lofty … the teachings deal with a greater reality … the inner landmarks of dimensions and forms and lack of forms and the higher vibrations of various levels that are clearly distinguishable … you never saw them before but when you see them now they “make sense” … you recognize them … the powers enhance … the awareness grows … you distinguish among belief and habit and pattern and consciousness and awareness and immersion and individuality and … Spirit. The puzzle pieces *do* form a picture and that picture offers a deeper understanding. Not opinion … not belief … not knowing … but understanding.

They are recognizable … and they do work together to make the Whole of Life.

Am I (zorkchop) personally “there”?

No.

I’ve got some things in front of me.

But the greater picture is there … and it is worth seeing … or more accurately … experiencing.

The “thing vs no-thing” is understood … the “beyond mind” isn’t as mysterious as it once was … and it’s not just a settling … a resignation … or a listless surrender.

It’s an understanding.

It IS there … and in the end … there’s really nothing you can do about it. As I’ve said before … you’ve got eternity to work with. You’re only living the current lifetime. A hundred lifetimes from now … a thousand … ? ? … where will you be ?

You will “get there” … and all the “get there’s” in between.

And then it’s an entirely different ballgame … one that mind cannot understand and is not meant to understand. But that doesn’t dismiss or destroy the mind as a total con job. It is the individual that allows the mind to get out of control. In the beginning … we never knew. In the middle times … it was too hard. In the ending times … it’s revision and refinement … one at a time … until mind is an ally and not an enemy. Mind is your servant and not your master. Mind is *the* tool while here … for what it was meant to be used for.

That is one of the great things we are to discover.

But we unknowingly let mind take over and control our lives. We didn’t know better. The entire schoolroom is designed to make us face this … eventually.

There are topics on this board that suggest that “faith” is overplayed and unnecessary. I strongly disagree. Sometimes … even often … it is your “faith” that the goal exists in the first place … that keeps you going. It’s beyond “hope” … it is a faithful belief that the goal IS there and that it *can* be attained. It might be in the year 5028 … but I will get there … and it will be worth it.

Meanwhile … I keep a handy supply of crying towels and blood-pressure medication. ( HeH ) Not so much anymore … but there were times.

I have no idea if any of this means anything to anybody … but it’s what you are in the middle of … whether you know it or not.

I’m working on a Confessions 1B for tomorrow … and then I’ll move on to things more practical and useful.

On we go.

More later.
  #32  
Old 28-10-2020, 06:21 AM
BlueElephant BlueElephant is offline
Experiencer
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 460
 
It is good what you are writing, and I agree that what you are imparting is valuable, however I feel that you are responding to the Western state of spiritual understanding - or perhaps to the generic understanding of many parts of this forum, its topics, etc. Which is ok - perhaps a little limited and therefore slightly offensive. I am not personally offended at all - I love that you are here contributing !!

When you talk about Eastern Spirituality you seem not to understand (Hindu, Jain and Buddhist, ) that the Path leads to an inconceivable realized state of beingness - the core essence of our true eternal Self and the Great Self. I have a feeling you may not have studied these traditions, met the Siddhas (accomplished ones ) of these Traditions to know they are real and true. That they offer profound ways to transform the mind, to travel to Spirit world, to enginer their future births if wanted, when and where, and who their parents will be, etc.

The ability of these and other Traditions practices to realize experiential truth, to move into the spiritual planes of existence and witness, experience, and understand. Many ways to integrate awareness at many levels, and keep moving in personal, global and trans-global evolution.

So, again kudos for this thread in so many ways ! I hope what I say inspires you to keep writing here, your voice is needed and good.
  #33  
Old 28-10-2020, 03:50 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
Guide
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 683
 
Replies & Clarifications Four …

BE … good to see you back. I always found worth in your earlier offerings and encouragement.

To clarify a bit … I am not here to compare, contradict, or compete for or against the various religions or the geographical Eastern verses Western. Each religion and philosophy has tremendous value within their realms of teaching. I am mostly here to try and address the progressive / evolutionary nature of the Path.

I have used the progressive style of our educational systems to somewhat portray this. let’s try another approach …

Let’s take a huge skyscraper building in New York City … or the Eiffel Tower in Paris … or the pyramids in Egypt …

Each of those started out as a mere concept in someone’s mind. After many ponderings as to design, function, value, stature, durability, and necessary construction materials needed … blueprints were drafted and again pondered over before the final prints were approved. Then contractors are hired, the building materials gathered, the manpower assembled, the land bought and cleaned, etc. Ultimately the structure rises … is finished … and becomes a part of the landscape.

The religions and philosophies formed to promote what they offer in their understanding and outline of “the Path” is quite similar. Everything starts somewhere … and goes somewhere. A core understanding of God is formed … and then broken down into the various religions and philosophies according to those who wish to “refine” and augment their set of teachings. Each is fabulous at their stage of guidance.

I have no doubt whatsoever the value and worth of the “accomplished siddha’s” and other proponents of the Eastern … or Western religions.

Let’s just say …

That an individual approaches, accepts, and deeply follows the Eastern religions for lifetime after lifetime. Let’s just say … that this same individual becomes very skillful in the ways of the mind and the design of each lifetime and such … as you pointed out.

Let’s just say … this goes on for a thousand lifetimes … each building upon the other. This goes on for one-and-a-half eternities. ( An obvious tongue-in-cheek statement … just to carry a concept forward. )

Eventually … that individual is gonna ask … is there something beyond?

Yes … there is. That’s mostly what I am here to just suggest. I am not here to demand it. I am not here to demand that “whatever” is the only way. I am just broadening the scope a bit … widening the vision … the understanding.

The above person could say to him / herself … “So what if there’s possibly something beyond … I love what I’m doing and I’m gonna continue for another one-and-a-half eternities.”

Way cool.

All I’m saying is … there is a more broad view … a wider expression of Life … a more full expansion of Truth … beyond the Eastern *or* Western religions and philosophies.

Some of the topics as asked within this forum are the same questions each religion asks … and has asked for eons. It’s perhaps helpful to catch a glimpse in where they may fall in the progression of understanding … to coin a phrase.

Hopefully you will continue to find some value in what I put forth here … and I again value your input. I believe that what I am really trying to accomplish here is to carry on with some kind of broadening of viewpoint without getting sidetracked by assaults, contradictions, and demands. That’s why I designed the whole “Replies and Clarifications” approach … to keep it separate from where I hope to take all of this.

When the consensus by those in the forum board is … “Enough … we’ve had enough … please stop … “ … these posts will stop. I am not here to aggravate anyone.

In the meantime … on we go. Keep your inquiries and personal assessments coming, BE. They are appreciated.

Another post to follow later.
  #34  
Old 28-10-2020, 05:33 PM
JustASimpleGuy
Posts: n/a
 
All I can say is when it clicks it clicks, life is a whole lot easier, will never be the same and in the best of ways.

The interesting thing to me is it's right there all along hiding in plain sight, yet so easy to miss. The veil is chock-full of so many potent distractions that hinder realization.
  #35  
Old 28-10-2020, 08:37 PM
janielee
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorkchop
...That is one of the great things we are to discover.

But we unknowingly let mind take over and control our lives. We didn’t know better. The entire schoolroom is designed to make us face this … eventually.


There are topics on this board that suggest that “faith” is overplayed and unnecessary. I strongly disagree. Sometimes … even often … it is your “faith” that the goal exists in the first place
… that keeps you going. It’s beyond “hope” … it is a faithful belief that the goal IS there and that it *can* be attained. It might be in the year 5028 … but I will get there … and it will be worth it..

Thanks, nothing to disagree with from here.

jl
  #36  
Old 28-10-2020, 09:17 PM
BlueElephant BlueElephant is offline
Experiencer
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 460
 
Yes, very good points Z - and since the eastern and other Mystical sytems that are experientially based and whether open-ended or not - the Liberated Realization brings one to open-ended progression. This is something alot might not know or understand - is that after Actual (and profound) Realization - then one continues onward in evolution - the evolution is ungraspable by the limited mind and yet integrated into this life and its associations sponteniously. Self Realization alone clears 97% of our individual suffering right away. and if it is True Genuine Realization - then that personal suffering does not come back - it is gone forever. Also, the Path goes on and on in development including after death of the physical body.

I do agree that there are very few who reach this level compared to exsisting humanity and many of them keep to themselves. And it is so easy to get embedded for 1 & 1/2 eons, etc into one or more Traditions like you say.

Thus ever onward, inward and ?? hehe
  #37  
Old 28-10-2020, 10:23 PM
JustASimpleGuy
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueElephant
Yes, very good points Z - and since the eastern and other Mystical sytems that are experientially based and whether open-ended or not - the Liberated Realization brings one to open-ended progression. This is something alot might not know or understand - is that after Actual (and profound) Realization - then one continues onward in evolution - the evolution is ungraspable by the limited mind and yet integrated into this life and its associations sponteniously. Self Realization alone clears 97% of our individual suffering right away. and if it is True Genuine Realization - then that personal suffering does not come back - it is gone forever. Also, the Path goes on and on in development including after death of the physical body.

I do agree that there are very few who reach this level compared to exsisting humanity and many of them keep to themselves. And it is so easy to get embedded for 1 & 1/2 eons, etc into one or more Traditions like you say.

Thus ever onward, inward and ?? hehe

A boat is useful for crossing a river, but once across leave the boat. Do not carry it on one's back.
  #38  
Old 29-10-2020, 12:06 AM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
Guide
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 683
 
Replies & Clarifications Four …

BE …

I should have put this in my earlier response to you …

Two Things …

One … show me where I made any claims against the Eastern religions. All I said was … all religions and philosophies are in sequence along a progressive evolution. What the individual can get out of them is up to the individual.

Two … show me where you can clearly state that I have *not* studied with great teachers … Siddha’s and otherwise … in past lives. Tell me that I have not studied under the “greats” that the current eastern scholars now discuss in their sacred historical texts.

The eastern religions are incredibly familiar to me. There is only one way to gain such familiarity. Studying under the teachers at the time … I left to further my education.

Enough said.

JASG …

An unfoldment is just that … an evolutionary unfoldment. Part of that is yes … discovering that which was right there in front of you all the time. If you have a tiny bean secluded under five bedding mattresses … and the whole conglomeration is right in front of you … it is the wrestling with the mattresses that exposes the bean. It was right in front of you all the time but it was disguised and hidden so you absolutely could *not* see it.

All part of the architecture of the school room.

Janielee …

Trust me … I *will* get to your interests. It’s taking a while … but the pieces are slowly arranging into a recognizable picture. As I stated earlier … I am keeping a list of the queries you put forth. I want to let all of this unfurl in its own way and its own time.

You still are to be commended for your interests.
  #39  
Old 29-10-2020, 12:07 AM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
Guide
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 683
 
Considerations Eleven …

Personal Confessions 1B …

I do not know how long ago I came upon the principle or precept that Soul Itself is *the* most powerful … *the* most capable entity in all of Creation / Existence … the Core Creator God (CCG) never having been created … and the various angels and lower world gods and such are still … Soul … working at or from the level they have attained.

I mean … if Soul is *the* most capable (etc) then what the heck am I going through all of this for?

In the end … it all falls into place. You learn what not to be … by first being that which is limited … and if Soul is *that* powerful … and It is … then the education must be absolutely complete and thorough.

You would not give a six-year-old a box of dynamite and a match to play with … and you would not give an entity who could create a world … the ability to do so until It realizes the full consequences.

It doesn’t make any difference at all what I wanted to hear. LIFE was going to direct my life and press me up so far against the wall to make me drop the limitations that I had little choice … or suffer even more than I was at the moment. In the end … it wasn’t the habitual pattern that was so difficult to change but the mental and emotional resistances to it that made it a struggle.

This … is key.

And it’s an astounding realization.

I also found out that it’s not a matter of reaching a Heaven with streets of gold and extra-comfy clouds to kick back on … for eternity. I have said it before and I will say it again … there are responsibilities to yourself and to LIFE in all of this … *if* you wish to stay in the worlds beyond.

You can always drop back to the psychic worlds and continue.

You find out … that Truth is not for the masses. Truth is for those that are willing to dig in and discover it … and make it work in their own personal lives. As you move on … there are plenty of those coming up behind you to take your place as you attend to more lofty endeavors.

Another thing that is a true change in perspective … you do not have to know in order to act … but you do have to act in order to know.

How many people want the answer … and then they’ll make whatever changes are necessary. *Prove* it to me first … and *then* I’ll consider it.

You have to take the risk … put in the effort … plug it in … ( yes … quietly … if you’re smart ) … and see how it fits … see how it works … see why it might be a vital part of the puzzle. You have to act … to carry the risk forward and explore the unknown … slowly … baby-steps … before you will know.

But mind will happily and often violently tell you … NO … don’t go there … don’t try that … don’t be stupid. And for most … for the most part … they will listen to mind. That does NOT make them wrong. Most will listen … when mind whispers … “No … *this* is the way … stay with the familiar.”

LIFE *will* eventually drag you kicking and screaming towards the final discoveries for which this entire schoolroom was designed. It is *our* resistance … that makes it difficult … and it is *our* unwillingness to listen to those that have been there before … that keeps it all a mystery. Discernment … saves a lot of time, effort, and grief.

Put these together with … we will walk *our* Path in *our* way and in *our* own time … which we certainly have the right to do … but it often makes for unnecessary struggles.

Yet for the most part … we often choose the latter.

Lots of people want the easy version of Truth … the capsule version … the e-book version. Do you really believe that *that* is the way LIFE would wish to reveal IT’s secrets?

There’s work involved … and effort … and lots of it … either now … or later.

And when someone discovers greater Truth … it is not theirs. They do not possess it. They cannot claim that it is mine … I own it. They have simply discovered and realized a level of Truth that was previously unknown to them … but was “there” all the time. They just couldn’t see it. And you also discover the validity of not giving these Truths to others unless and until they have the eye to see and the ears to hear. They will happily tell you why they do not wish to see … by whatever disguise they are using at the time.

And so … you move on … individually … and here is one of the great revelations that you discover …

Your interaction and relationship is with LIFE now … and not people. You delight in your interactions and relationships with people for what they are … and I will say this … there are few things that are more fulfilling than a truly loving, deeply involving and giving relationship with the opposite sex. When a man and a woman are deeply, deeply in love and smoothly work at it to keep it fresh and alive … there are few greater experiences to be had … certainly in the lower psychic worlds.

But ultimately you begin to interact with LIFE … and LIFE becomes your constant companion … and that works and fulfills just fine. You are not a fanatic … you are not a rebel … you are not a critic … you are not superior …

You are simply a working part of LIFE and you understand this precept … and are willing to serve. And then …

On we go.

More later.
  #40  
Old 29-10-2020, 12:35 AM
janielee
Posts: n/a
 
thanks zorkchop for the encouragement; more about responsibility please and the relationship part is nice. thanks.
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