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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Meditation

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  #801  
Old 17-07-2021, 01:37 PM
Gem Gem is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
That's why mindfulness meditation is a specific meditation technique. As far as I can determine in essence it's no different than any other technique in that there's an object of attending and when distractions arise notice them, gently let them go and return to attending whatever the object might be.
While it's consciously attending an object the real work is carried out below the conscious by not allowing thought trains to develop and run wild...
Mindfulness is different to meditations such as mantra because mindfulness involves no imagination or controlling, whereas other meditation methods do. It's the difference between seeing it 'as it is' and 'making it as you want it to be'. That's an important distinction because the cessation of doings is what enables the purification, seeing the truth as experienced by you and disrupts the 'cause' of suffering and bondage in the kammic cycle.

Since mindfulness is always returning to reality 'as it is', objects of sensation including breath and other feelings are suitable, whereas mental fabrications are not. Hence imagined techniques and mindfulness are not only distinctly different, but directly contradictory and incompatible.

Apart from persistently returning to your momentary reality, one also investigates that reality carefully, examines closely or looks deeply. Hencewhy very subtle objects such as sensation or the sound in your ears which were exampled earlier in the thread are suitable for really honing in on the subtler nuances of reality.

I like your approach of 'resting in awareness' just as much, and I like Ramana's self inquiry as well, so I'm not like crazy particular. I'm just elaborating on a couple of the finer points for the sake of interest.
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Last edited by Miss Hepburn : 17-07-2021 at 05:29 PM. Reason: Shortened quote as Admin has asked to 2-3 sentences
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  #802  
Old 17-07-2021, 01:39 PM
sky sky is offline
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Originally Posted by Gem
It was pretty clearly explained that 'craving' is the culmination of aversion and desire, but you believe there are skillful desires and I have no reason to convince you otherwise
What made you join the Goenka Dudes Ashram ?
Was it not the 'Desire' to learn His Teachings rather than being forced at gunpoint So was it a Skillful choice ?
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  #803  
Old 17-07-2021, 01:49 PM
Legrand
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Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
@ Legrand … Attention yet oscillates! Getting there, getting there, slowly smelling the roses
So many layers to the centre, there is a Joy in touching each petal on the way.
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  #804  
Old 17-07-2021, 03:06 PM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I like your approach of 'resting in awareness' just as much, and I like Ramana's self inquiry as well, so I'm not like crazy particular. I'm just elaborating on a couple of the finer points for the sake of interest.
I agree the various techniques are different but I do think they ultimately lead to the same "space".

Every now and then I do swap mindfulness of sound for breath and occasionally work with candle gazing and what I call diffuse vision which I suppose is more associated with Dream Yoga.

What I find with all of them is they seem to me very organic because they don't require fabrication of an object to attend, and diffuse vision seems to me very much like eyes-open resting in awareness where visual focus is relaxed, not focusing on anything specific, instead being aware of the entire field of vision.
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  #805  
Old 17-07-2021, 04:51 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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QUOTE 796 EXCERPT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
I'd label that what Jon Kabat-Zinn calls resting in awareness.
Being a simple guy - and I really am - I found the simplest approach with the least moving parts works quite well.
There are so many similar practices that are called by different names.
I too prefer the simplest approach with as little theology as possible.
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  #806  
Old 17-07-2021, 04:56 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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QUOTE 797 EXCERPT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Even though the text is broken into sections for elaboration purposes, we find in practice that it doesn't go in steps like that.
Of course, in actual practice, the "steps" in the Satipattana Sutra obviously overlap even though the text is broken into sections as you duly noted.

In Asthanga Yoga (Eight-Limbed Yoga) the "Limb" terminology is specifically used to indicate that a person can be positioned (metaphorically of course) on multiple limbs simultaneously.
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  #807  
Old 17-07-2021, 05:32 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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QUOTE 801 EXCERPT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinnat
Liberation by knowledge- This theory says that one can be liberated of attain enlightenment only by knowledge. Technically speaking, that is true but not practically implementable in 99.99% of cases.
The intellect can get one to the point where one realizes that the intellect is not sufficient for liberation ... and then one can go beyond intellect.

I never forgot Pir Vilayat Khan's statement many years ago that "The ego is very important ... until one no longer needs it".

Similarly, the intellect is very important ... until one no longer needs it.

Having said that, everything is "needed" in one way or another but I think that you get my point relevant to liberation and enlightenment.
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  #808  
Old 17-07-2021, 05:33 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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QUOTE 802 EXCERPT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
practice is awareness with equanimity of mind for the novice, the adept, the teacher and the master.
I that point.
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  #809  
Old 17-07-2021, 05:40 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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I'm gonna use that word more...''I practice equanimity."
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Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
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  #810  
Old 17-07-2021, 11:38 PM
A human Being A human Being is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
QUOTE 801 EXCERPT: The intellect can get one to the point where one realizes that the intellect is not sufficient for liberation ... and then one can go beyond intellect.

I never forgot Pir Vilayat Khan's statement many years ago that "The ego is very important ... until one no longer needs it".
This is excellent, this is wisdom Brings to mind an Adyashanti quote: 'The intelligent mind realises its own limitation, and it's a beautiful thing when it does'.

(Mind you, I remember when I realised the limitations of my own mind, it didn't feel very beautiful - far from it, it felt like a shattering blow. Though that's only because I didn't realise that there's an intelligence that's far greater than the thinking mind.)
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