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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #211  
Old 18-07-2021, 10:59 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH
If one and all are different aspects then its certainly not oneness.
Aspects of the one, not things separate from the one
Quote:
Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH
Never mind , I always have enjoyed duality and simply relish the fun and excitement it offers without missing the blissful existence in the non-dual experiences. So i can very well understand your experiences very well .
The thing is, there's no such thing as duality.
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  #212  
Old 18-07-2021, 11:23 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowyowl
I'd take this to mean there's different types of existence: unicorns don't exist physically (realism?). But we need to have the idea of them existing in our imagination in order to discuss them (nominalism?).
How can something that doesn't exist enter your consciousness? So somewhere along the line you picked up on unicorns and what they are, and if I asked you to describe them you'd likely come up with close to the same description as me.

The trick to understanding what's going on here is to delve into the origins of unicorns, which is symbolism. They are representations as much as the signs of the zodiac or animal guides. That's not imagination though, because your whole sense of who and what you are is a representation.

Imagination and 'regular consciousness' uses the same source - what you are conscious of - so saying that what we imagine has no reality is inaccurate. Imagination is a process of the exploration of possibilities with what's in your conscious while what you call real is using logic and reason. If you want to do some serious thinking, imagination is Schrodinger's Cat. You see, what decides what is real or not isn't real itself. Imagining driving that red convertible in the showroom is a possibility however unlikely and underneath the possibility is your desire to drive it. Your desire is real, your imaginings are the expressions of your desire into the conscious mind.

The objective reality is that all reality is subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowyowl
Ha ha, this was my love of double entendre. It does twist my mind trying to understand this stuff, but it's also like a 'strange loop' (see wikipedia for details).
I much prefer Fibonacci spirals, they're also more natural in so many ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowyowl
So non-existence is also part of the realm of existence? In that case, existence has no opposite. In fact, that's true either way: if non-existence (ie nothing) does exist, it's not opposite to existence. If non-existence doesn't exist, then it's also not in opposition (or duality) to existence. So existence is the absolute. This, here and now, is the absolute.
Non-existence is in the realm of the differentiated consciousness of the ego, non-existence is based on something existing in the first place. If you say that something doesn't exist you're saying that it has already entered your consciousness and therefore it must exist yet you're contradicting yourself. Unicorns do exist but as an avatar or artefact of consciousness, and the people who say they don't exist simply don't understand as much about consciousness as they'd like to think.

There is only what exists and there is nothing that does not exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowyowl
I'm conscious of This (being). Sometimes it appears as separate from me, the observer, sometimes not. The me observing my own consciousness is also a strange loop: non-existence, existing. I am a self-reference, a paradox.

I'm stopping now because I need a lie down with a wet towel on my head. [/size][/font]
You shouldn't have stopped because you're on a roll. You are consciousness becoming conscious of itself, and it's those two that are different, not you. Consciousness comes in 'layers' sometimes because regardless of what you are conscious of there's always something 'above'. So first you were conscious, now you are conscious that you are conscious - which is you 'observing' your own conscious.
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Last edited by Greenslade : 18-07-2021 at 02:27 PM.
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  #213  
Old 18-07-2021, 11:28 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
Yeah the word finite is relative like everything else.
And that's one of the greatest understandings you'll ever come to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
So it's still relevant to the idea of non-duality and duality. As the relativity of all relativities. Perhaps even Source Relativity.
Yes it's relevant to Duality and non-Duality but there is no Source Relativity. The relativity comes from the ego, the only thing that is inherent is Isness.
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  #214  
Old 18-07-2021, 01:01 PM
Ewwerrin Ewwerrin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
Yes it's relevant to Duality and non-Duality but there is no Source Relativity. The relativity comes from the ego, the only thing that is inherent is Isness.
This is amazing thing to say, and it is true.

But then you would have to call Source Energy an Ego aswell?

I have no problem with that personally. But I do make the distinction that Source Energy Consciousness' Ego is pure positive energy and ever expanding in the vibrational being and becoming evermore here and now all that any one ever expandingly wants to be do or have.
It basically takes all our desires and holds it in vibrational escrow for us to align with the allowed receiving / realisation of it.
I think for a human being, the contrast/relativity of Source Ego is undiscernable, it is too high a frequency.

Ultimately the being without becoming, is what is the ultimate inherentness of all that exists, as the ultimate unknowable absolute aspect of existence as the being without the becoming.
But it has no awareness, and so it cannot be experienced or known, no other and so no self. As there is no polarity/duality/energy/awareness/vibration/consciousness/reflection/becoming.

Would you agree with that, or would you say it differently?
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  #215  
Old 18-07-2021, 01:59 PM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
But then you would have to call Source Energy an Ego aswell?
The ego is, as Jung put it, the centre of the field of consciousness or "A sense of I am." Nothing to do with energy. There is a relationship with energy and consciousness that creates physical reality though, as quantum theory will tell you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
I have no problem with that personally. But I do make the distinction that Source Energy Consciousness' Ego is pure positive energy and ever expanding in the vibrational being and becoming evermore here and now all that any one ever expandingly wants to be do or have.
It basically takes all our desires and holds it in vibrational escrow for us to align with the allowed receiving / realisation of it.
I think for a human being, the contrast/relativity of Source Ego is undiscernable, it is too high a frequency.
'Positive' and 'negative' is nothing more than binary/polarised thinking and frankly of little use. It's judgement against personal parameters. Consciousness is not energy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
Ultimately the being without becoming, is what is the ultimate inherentness of all that exists, as the ultimate unknowable absolute aspect of existence as the being without the becoming.
But it has no awareness, and so it cannot be experienced or known, no other and so no self. As there is no polarity/duality/energy/awareness/vibration/consciousness/reflection/becoming.

Would you agree with that, or would you say it differently?
There is no 'ultimate', that's a construct of the mind.
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  #216  
Old 18-07-2021, 03:37 PM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is offline
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Permanent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
The shift to bliss is permanent, irrespective of the external, unless one is in deep physical pain, maybe.
I mean experience of bliss may not be permanent for seeker. For whom it has become permanent they are adept masters which are rare to find.
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  #217  
Old 19-07-2021, 03:05 PM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH
I mean experience of bliss may not be permanent for seeker. For whom it has become permanent they are adept masters which are rare to find.

My experience as well as understanding is different. Let us not be in awe of bliss. I mean, itís great, in that it grips us in a continuum of heightened rapture, we are equanimous, the external recedes, we are tranquil, some level of empathy and compassion manifests Ö but Ö

Ö but Ö what of other enablements? Directly imbibed wisdom/ knowledge, luminescence, unbroken awareness, control over the elements, access to different realms? The touch of Gods hand?

It is not necessary that someone who is graced by bliss in permanence is complete. Far from it. Yet we each seek, what we donít have, without gratitude for benedictions bestowed. An ego urge of course.

The journey is long.
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