Dealing with people telling you you're not "true Wicca"

Hey all

I've taken some heat from a couple of people lately (online) telling me that I am not Wiccan, and that I should not call myself Wiccan because I have not been initiated into this religion by someone on the British Isles who can trace their lineage back to New Forest. They also told me that using such a sacred term as "Blessed Be" would be offensive to "true Wiccans" as I have not been initiated.


My response was simply how can someone tell another person that they are not of a certain religion, basically because "they're not good enough" or some such thing, when the person does not have the resources. Personally, if I wanted to be Alexandrian or Dianic or Gardnerian or something or another, then yes. But I do not proclaim to be thus, so can I still not consider myself Wiccan? One of the reasons why I new Christianity was not the path I was meant to walk is because of the bigotry and elitism preached throughout. Personally I feel as if being "initiated" means more if done by the gods themselves, rather than a human being. Any religion that proclaims to have people who can speak for the gods, and only they have the right to grant you the title of such-and-such is not a religion I want to be associated with.


I apologize; I am unwavering in my Path but I am having some doubts about the name I choose to give people. An older coworker (she is in her 60s I believe and a hilarious person), who saw my necklace, said, "Oh so you are Wiccan," and I said, "That is how I identify," and we had a lovely though very short conversation. She had been rather mysterious about the whole thing as well but I have not pressed.

I realize that part of my choosing to identify with Wicca specifically is a convenience thing; though misunderstood, it is much easier to tell people I am Wiccan rather than "eclectic duo-poly-omnitheistic pagan animist who practices witchcraft." I would love some thoughts and advice on the matter. If I am not Wiccan, then if someone would be so kind as to let me in on a name for my Path, at the very least. Neo-Wiccan seems to be a term I've seen floating around, but it seems rather redundant seeing as "Wicca" itself is a rather new term in retrospect.

My Path has not changed, but I was not prepared to endure bigotry from people I identified with. From Christians and others, yes, but certainly not from those I considered my brothers and sisters of the Earth.


Many thanks

Hi Tanith,

I am not Wiccan but I know what you mean. For instance I am not Christian, but whenever I say that people say, “Oh, Catholic then?” then when I say no, they stop, give me a doubtful stare, and ask “Do you believe in God?” So to avoid having to say “I believe in God but not the way the Bible describes Him/It/She” for the 278th time, I just say I’m a Seventh-Day Adventist. Or sometimes Catholic, because even Adventists are not that well-known here. Heck I even wrote “Roman Catholic” in my college papers because it was a Roman-Catholic school. Or I just say yes to whatever they say if they’re people I don’t really care about.

I think you should stick with Wiccan if your heart feels like it. You are right in that the God/Goddesses initiation is far more important that human. Maybe I just don’t understand how sacred it is to most Wiccans, and I hate to sound offensive, but saying you’re not Wiccan because you weren’t initiated, though you practice it, is just like saying I am Atheist because I was never baptized in any religion (it’s true).

Plus, I don’t know if this is true but I remember reading that Witchcraft is older than Wicca—that is, before an organized religion was actually formed, Witches already existed. There are even Witches that snob off Wiccans.

There you go… This is what I think… :)

[Gem]

[norseman]

Tanith, I would make a few suggestions. First off, hard to work out but are you American ? This kind of nonsense is common among American wiccans. I have fought it out many times on SF [pre-crash] to the point that I cannot be bothered anymore. Secondly, all the hoopla about heritage is another nonsense given that Wicca was "born yesterday" and the stuff about lineage and covens was grafted on by Gardner from other sources. Grafted onto a core of British Traditional Witchcraft. Thirdly, the norm in the UK is solitary, self-declared wiccans and always has been. This is because there is still a strong Craft element in Britain. Were you aware, for example, that Gardner was an ordained christian priest ?
I am not wiccan but something much older. However, I am a Global Moderator of a Wiccan Forum and, to the best of my knowledge, there are no coven members in it. So the next time someone claims to "more wiccan" that you, just smile. If you want an alternative name for your faith, you could use "The Cunning Craft" or simply "The Craft".

Thank you for your kind words!

Sybilline, yes, I can see how that would get out of hand rather quickly. Thank you very much for your thoughts! Yes, witchcraft is much older and follows a much deeper connection, though I do not associate witchcraft with a religion because you can be a witch and generally belong to any religion. I was technically born Southern Baptist, but I have never been baptized either. My mother felt like such things should be a personal choice, not a requirement imposed on children who do not understand.


Gem, that image is just lovely and wonderful! Its message is powerful and though I agree that it is the labels we place upon ourselves which causes rifts between us, it is our diversity, too, that makes us so unique. What I believe to be violent is not calling oneself by a specific term, but refusing to accept the differences of those who are from different cultures or backgrounds. We need to see our similarities, but accept our differences.


Norse; yes I was born and raised in the United States. Often I have had others tell me I am hypocritical, because I am deeply proud of my Southern heritage here yet I am not Abrahamic, as the majority of the South is. Thank you for your wisdom, I appreciate the information. (And no, I was unaware of Gardner being an ordained priest!) It is interesting to find out what seems to be the normal way for the Craft in the UK. The way I see it, my heritage goes much deeper than simply the South (after all, I am technically as much a stranger to North America as anyone born in another country, this land belongs to the Native Americans and always will) and that is the path I wish to walk, or as close to it as I can, though it is an old path, and I feel as if Wicca gives me the freedom to combine what is old with what is new, because both I feel are needed.

Originally Posted by Tanith

I've taken some heat from a couple of people lately (online) telling me that I am not Wiccan, and that I should not call myself Wiccan because I have not been initiated into this religion by someone on the British Isles who can trace their lineage back to New Forest.

Oh, yay! Hard Gards!

Ignore them. They're the equivalent of Neopagan fundamentalists who think you must take their road or no road. You're unlikely to convince them to change their minds about you, so ignore them.

That said, if you bother to listen to them, there is some insight to be gleaned from their perspective. Mainstream Wicca does have some significant differences from BTW Wicca. I agree that you should never claim a lineage and initiation that you do not have, but not all forms of Wicca emphasize that. So long as you understand that kind of distinction, I don't see what their fuss is about. They can do their thing, you can do your thing. I agree that "Neowicca" is an awkward and unnecessary term. The religion isn't even 100 years old.

[norseman]

Q. BTW = British Traditional Witchcraft. Not that it matters.

Coming back on the heritage thingy, it does explain why UK and US wicca are so different. UK has a long-standing pagan heritage and modern pagans are still very active. Whereas, from birth, US was christian. These are traits that are deep rooted and hard to shift. For example, I am a product of my environment. I live in a city which is 3000+ years old. Hop and a skip away is a henge which is about 5000 years old and still used today at festival times. Active christians are a diminishing minority here.

Yes, I certainly do not claim any lineage from a coven, which is why I take care to add in the words "eclectic" and "solitary" when necessary. I just never thought I'd hear another person tell me that the god(ess)(s) I worship are not gods of Wicca. As I said, I somewhat expected it from non-pagans but not from within. I'm a second generation witch, but not necessarily Wiccan. My mother told me she was once part of a coven, but whether she was initiated or not, I don't know, because she left. She doesn't believe in organized religion, and I'm beginning to see why! :)

Norsman is spot on. Typically you would see these type of "witch wars" in High Schools, which picked up after "The Craft".

To Norsmans point, there is no Pagan history in the US.

A great resource for a solitary in the US is WitchSchool.com

Good luck!!

The irony is, many of the people I've run into who hold Hard Gard perspectives aren't even Wiccan by their own standards. Which begs the question: how exactly are they an authority on this and why the blazes do they care? I mean, that would be like me saying someone isn't a real Christian if they don't believe X, Y, and Z in spite of the fact that I'm not even Christian myself. That is silliness right there, I think.

Even more silly is the fact that the only time I've ever had someone curse me was because I politely disagreed with them on this one topic. I'm sorry, that's pathetic. Some of these Hard Gards are seriously foaming-at-the-mouth rabid. The ones that aren't I have less of an issue with, but I've had to deal with the ones that shove it in your face and harass you if you dare to disagree with their opinion. Dealing with them is among the worst experiences I've ever had with online web forums. Since leaving the one web forum that was plagued with Hard Gards, I've rarely had to deal with them since. They're an odd minority opinion.