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27-09-2020, 04:03 AM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,075
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Deep dive on 4 Noble Truth philosphy
The fundamental premises of Buddhist philosophy are the 4 Noble Truths (4NT): - There is suffering
- Suffering has a cause
- Suffering can be resolved
- There is a way to resolve suffering
The principle of 'the path' is to self-examine to discover the ways in which the 4NT are true in your own life. As such, the 4NT aren't to be considered as objectively true. These premises really only imply that it is possible to develop the purely subjective understanding or wisdom that enables resolution.
That sets the basis for the thread. I'm going to proceed with future posts in progressive steps so the thread can be followed in an orderly way. It could be an idea to start a daily meditation schedule and check in here to see what I say and contribute from your practice insights. If not, I still suggest taking a minute or so of breath awareness before reading or posting on the thread, and perhaps include 10 seconds of metta if you are genuinely inclined. That would benefit us all.
__________________
Radiate boundless love towards the entire world ~ Buddha
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27-09-2020, 04:14 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: अनुगृहितोऽस्म
Posts: 16,048
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Should be interesting.
__________________
⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜
Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜
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27-09-2020, 05:37 AM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
Should be interesting.
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I'm curious if you have knowledge of the original sayings of the Buddha (as Christians have Jesus' words in gospels) about the Four Noble Truths.
I googled and found this: "I teach suffering, its origin, cessation and path. That's all I teach", declared the Buddha 2500 years ago. It looks like a quote, but as the author doesn't indicate a source, it might be a paraphrase.
Coincidentally I listened to somebody's talk today, that was saying something on the lines that Buddhism says that " life is suffering", which sounded to me differently that what @gem wrote, and even further form the BBC quote https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/relig...truths_1.shtml I disagree that "life is suffering", so I'm curious what did the Big Guy actually say, as close as possible. I suspect that he was misinterpreted and misunderstood, as much as Jesus, and all the Others were.
Thanks.
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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27-09-2020, 07:30 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 15,533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
I'm curious if you have knowledge of the original sayings of the Buddha (as Christians have Jesus' words in gospels) about the Four Noble Truths.
I googled and found this: "I teach suffering, its origin, cessation and path. That's all I teach", declared the Buddha 2500 years ago. It looks like a quote, but as the author doesn't indicate a source, it might be a paraphrase.
Coincidentally I listened to somebody's talk today, that was saying something on the lines that Buddhism says that " life is suffering", which sounded to me differently that what @gem wrote, and even further form the BBC quote https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/relig...truths_1.shtml I disagree that "life is suffering", so I'm curious what did the Big Guy actually say, as close as possible. I suspect that he was misinterpreted and misunderstood, as much as Jesus, and all the Others were.
Thanks.
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You might find the Original Teaching interesting.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....011.than.html
Most Buddhist Scholars and Translators have agreed that Dukkha is better translated as Unsatisfactoriness rather than Suffering. Buddha has never said ' life is Suffering ' but ' In life there is Suffering '.
The Truths read,
The truth of suffering (dukkha)
The truth of the cause of suffering (samudaya)
The truth of the end of suffering (nirhodha)
The truth of the path that frees us from suffering (magga)
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27-09-2020, 08:33 PM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
You might find the Original Teaching interesting.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....011.than.html
Most Buddhist Scholars and Translators have agreed that Dukkha is better translated as Unsatisfactoriness rather than Suffering. Buddha has never said ' life is Suffering ' but ' In life there is Suffering '.
The Truths read,
The truth of suffering (dukkha)
The truth of the cause of suffering (samudaya)
The truth of the end of suffering (nirhodha)
The truth of the path that frees us from suffering (magga)
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Thanks. It sounds like: master your emotions, don't let emotions control you.
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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27-09-2020, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
Thanks. It sounds like: master your emotions, don't let emotions control you.
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That's not even really close
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27-09-2020, 09:21 PM
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Thanks, Gem.
Just adding one of my favorite teachings on the subject:
Introduction
That both I and you have had to travel and trudge through
this long round is owing to our not discovering,
not penetrating four truths. What four?
They are: The Noble Truth of Suffering,
The Noble Truth of the Origin of Suffering,
The Noble Truth of the Cessation of Suffering,
and the Noble Truth of the Way
Leading to the Cessation of Suffering.
Digha Nikaya, Sutta 16
The Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta, the Buddha’s teaching on the Four Noble Truths, has been the main reference that I have used for my practice over the years. It is the teaching we used in our monastery in Thailand. The Theravada school of Buddhism regards this sutta as the quintessence of the teaching of the Buddha. This one sutta contains all that is necessary for understanding Dhamma and for enlightenment.
Though the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta is considered to be the first sermon the Buddha gave after his enlightenment, I sometimes like to think that he gave his first sermon when he met an ascetic on the way to Varanasi. After his enlightenment in Bodh Gaya, the Buddha thought: “This is such a subtle teaching. I cannot possibly convey in words what I have discovered[…]”
Excerpt From: Ajahn Sumedho. “The Four Noble Truths.”
https://www.amaravati.org/dhamma-boo...-noble-truths/
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28-09-2020, 04:51 AM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
I'm curious if you have knowledge of the original sayings of the Buddha (as Christians have Jesus' words in gospels) about the Four Noble Truths.
I googled and found this: "I teach suffering, its origin, cessation and path. That's all I teach", declared the Buddha 2500 years ago.
It looks like a quote, but as the author doesn't indicate a source, it might be a paraphrase.
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It sounds about right, I cant remember the exact sutta off hand... but it's a decent enough paraphrase.
Quote:
Coincidentally I listened to somebody's talk today, that was saying something on the lines that Buddhism says that "life is suffering", which sounded to me differently that what @gem wrote, and even further form the BBC quotehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/relig...truths_1.shtml
I disagree that "life is suffering", so I'm curious what did the Big Guy actually say, as close as possible. I suspect that he was misinterpreted and misunderstood, as much as Jesus, and all the Others were.
Thanks.
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The big guy just said 'there is suffering'. The main point of saying so was just to state the obvious before then trying to explain how it is caused, and the way to resolve it.
__________________
Radiate boundless love towards the entire world ~ Buddha
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28-09-2020, 07:39 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 15,533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
Thanks. It sounds like: master your emotions, don't let emotions control you.
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It's not about controlling our emotions but understanding why they arise in the first place so not to identify with them which causes more suffering and adds fuel to the fire...
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28-09-2020, 07:48 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 15,533
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Dukkha
Much confusion is due to the English translation of the Pali/Sanskrit word dukkha as "suffering." According to the Ven. Ajahn Sumedho, a Theravadin monk and scholar, the word actually means "incapable of satisfying" or "not able to bear or withstand anything." Other scholars replace "suffering" with "stressful."
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