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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Hinduism

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  #1  
Old 17-04-2020, 01:06 PM
bhakta bhakta is offline
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Path of devotion, gods and demi-gods

Few months back I visited a Hindu psychic medium who recommended that I start worshiping lord Ganesha. I told her that I wished to worship lord Krishna because I had decided to give the path of devotion or Bhakti a try, and felt more drawn towards that deity. She replied me revealing that my astrological chart dictated that I should consider Ganesha as my preferred deity and therefore propitiate him, but at the same time there was nothing wrong in worshiping lord Krishna.

Now, most Hindu psychic mediums I have met have told me that deities like Ganesha and other petty gods exist for real, have their particular role and that they need to be pleased either in order to win their favor or lest they be displeased. But many classify these deities as demigods while deities like Shiva and Vishnu as gods. I have read Bhagwata Geeta which puts Krishna or Vishnu on the rank of "The God" whilst other demi-gods, including Shiva are considered to be demi-gods. I am sure Shaivite tradition replaces Shiva with Vishnu and so do other traditions like Shakta et al.

Now I am left with so many questions but here I will only list the ones that are bothering me the most and whose answers, I am optimist, I will be able to get from you all:

1. Do you believe that these demi-gods do exist like told by the mediums? Do they have the same andromorphic form as seen in the images?

2. So who is the real God between Shiva and Vishnu and who is just a demi god?

3. Isn't it true that Shiva and Vishnu appeared much later in Puranas and they are merely imaginary representation of some formless God/Power given by devotees. In that case isn't worshipping them assigning a particular form like other demi-gods (if case 1. is true) just a waste of time?

4. If I decide to worship all three: Ganesha, Shiva and Vishnu/Krishna, what is the best way of practice? Can I tread on the path of Bhakti venerating both Shiva and Vishnu if there exist any tradition, and worhship Ganesha for my wordly endeavors?

Thank you
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  #2  
Old 17-04-2020, 01:25 PM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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Tricky territory ... beliefs and visualisation. Go with what resonates within, is what I’d recommend. Fewer the concepts, the clearer is the revelation, unclouded by limited mind.

A good friend of mine sees the formless creator manifest as Hiranyagarbha, flanked by Shiva in Ardhnarishwar form on one side and Vishnu on the other, with guess who ... Brahma in the centre of Hiranyagarbha!

The journey is amazing! Yet the Bhakti path possibly requires a mental image, to start with. Still, who knows how it all unfolds? Free of doubt & fear, we should allow ourselves to be surprised!

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  #3  
Old 18-04-2020, 12:26 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhakta
Few months back I visited a Hindu psychic medium who recommended that I start worshiping lord Ganesha. I told her that I wished to worship lord Krishna because I had decided to give the path of devotion or Bhakti a try, and felt more drawn towards that deity. She replied me revealing that my astrological chart dictated that I should consider Ganesha as my preferred deity and therefore propitiate him, but at the same time there was nothing wrong in worshiping lord Krishna.

Now, most Hindu psychic mediums I have met have told me that deities like Ganesha and other petty gods exist for real, have their particular role and that they need to be pleased either in order to win their favor or lest they be displeased. But many classify these deities as demigods while deities like Shiva and Vishnu as gods. I have read Bhagwata Geeta which puts Krishna or Vishnu on the rank of "The God" whilst other demi-gods, including Shiva are considered to be demi-gods. I am sure Shaivite tradition replaces Shiva with Vishnu and so do other traditions like Shakta et al.

Now I am left with so many questions but here I will only list the ones that are bothering me the most and whose answers, I am optimist, I will be able to get from you all:

1. Do you believe that these demi-gods do exist like told by the mediums? Do they have the same andromorphic form as seen in the images?

2. So who is the real God between Shiva and Vishnu and who is just a demi god?

3. Isn't it true that Shiva and Vishnu appeared much later in Puranas and they are merely imaginary representation of some formless God/Power given by devotees. In that case isn't worshipping them assigning a particular form like other demi-gods (if case 1. is true) just a waste of time?

4. If I decide to worship all three: Ganesha, Shiva and Vishnu/Krishna, what is the best way of practice? Can I tread on the path of Bhakti venerating both Shiva and Vishnu if there exist any tradition, and worhship Ganesha for my wordly endeavors?

Thank you
Namaste.

How I see it...what use is there in worshiping an aspect of the Divine (and there are countless to choose from) if your heart isn't in it? If you don't feel drawn to it?

It is my understanding that people only supplicate Lord Ganesha to get over difficulties and obstacles in life eg "I already worship one God and he/she is doing nothing to give me what I want so, I will go and worship another God so they may be more open to listening and responding to my desires and woes".....it really doesn't work that way.

Sure, our faith in a certain Deity may cause things to manifest when one has lost faith in another Deity. It is because they are approaching them for selfish ends when there is probably a reason why you are worshiping the God(s) you already do in the first place.

It is only a coincidence that my Astrological chart tells me to worship Bhairava, even though Swami Chidananda Saraswati tried to get me to worship the Goddess Tripurasundari once...all that did was to highlight the differences between the Kaula schools of Tantric Shaivism...so in Bhakti, it is always better to just attended to your own heart's pleasures and the love you feel in there.

1. Unlike the Gaudiya Vaishnavas, I take a different approach. The Nature Spirits or "Devas" are the "Demigods" like Indra Dev, Agni Dev, Varun Dev, Shani Dev, Surya Dev etc..those are the "Demigods". The Godhead is the combination of Brahma, Vishnu & Shiva all-in-one..called the Trimurti....only I choose to worship the "Shiva" aspect of it as being totally inclusive and beyond the trinity of all Divine qualities (Tripurari).

2. I have listed the "Demigods" above. Many schools of Vaishnavism vs Shaivism will advocate their aspect of Godhead as being the "Saguna Brahman" while everything else (including any opposing Deities) as being "beneath/below" it in some kind of hierarchical structure, or incorporated wholly into it to say "that God you worship is only a small part of the God that I worship"..but it is all just smoke and mirrors...all fun and games. I could have very easily gone the other way and worshiped Lord Narayana or Lord Krishna instead...and I was given that opportunity..but I fell in love with Lord Shiva and the labels anybody places on Lord Shiva (including myself) don't tend to stick there for very long.

3. Yes, the Indian Gods "appeared" much later in the piece, but it also depends on how you want to take that as well to suit whatever confirmation biases you also have about your own (limited) understanding as to the "nature of God". For example, in the Rig Veda, it mentions Rudra as being the Spirit in Man...in the Indus Valley, around the time the Vedas were being written, they found clay tablets attesting to the worship of a deity called Pashupati...both Rudra and Pashupati were later incorporated into the Deity known as being "Shiva" or "Auspiciousness".

4. I don't know. Although, some have worshipped Shiva and Vishnu at the same time as being HariHara.... and their son (when Vishnu was in Mohini incarnation during the Bhasmasura incident) as being Ayappan....the one with the bell...so, wherever there is a will to worship, people will always seem to construct a why and a how to match it..but that isn't important.. only the notion of Ishta Dewata is..your own personal God/Demigod who can lead you to Moksh..to liberation.

ॐ असतो मा सद्गमय ।
तमसो मा ज्योतिर्गमय ।
मृत्योर्मा अमृतं गमय ।
ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ॥

Aum Namah Shivaya
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  #4  
Old 18-04-2020, 02:12 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Namaste.

You can also tell a LOT from a specific Deity by the vehicles (Vimanas) they choose to ride, with relation to that part of your internal values you wish to cultivate or strengthen..

I am about to tell you right now what a thousand Hindu "psychic mediums" and Astrologers never will!

Lord Brahma - Hamsa the Swan.

Hamsa means disernment and discrimination. The Hamsa Swan is the only creature alive who can separate the milk dissolved in with the water. Hamsa also represents the focused awareness on the breath.."Ham" (I AM) during the inhalation and "Sa" (Truth) on the exhalation. After a while "Hamsa" becomes "Saham" and that's when things get interesting when you allow your awareness to rest within that space between each ingoing and outgoing breath.

Lord Vishnu - Garuda, the Eagle.

This mount signifies keen-ness, awareness, motivation and vigilance. If these are the qualities you lack, then Garuda can help you. It is also said that each Deity of the Trimurti corresponds to an aspect of the three Gunas (Sattwa, Rajas and Tamas), with their mounts representing such.

Lord Shiva - Nandi the Bull

This is the only terrestrial mount among the Trimurti. So it represents the need for grounding and centering inside the Self. Nandi is a very interesting character.. stubborn, pig headed, foolhardy, yet intensely loyal, loving and trusting..so if you require to work on that, sit gazing at Shiva Lingam, just like Nandi does.

Lord Ganesha - Mouse/Rat

It always amused me to think about an elephant riding a mouse...must either be one tiny elephant, or one ginormous mouse, isn't it? Until I realized this represents the emotions of fear (what are elephants afraid of?) and overindulgence (not necessarily those of laddhus) which is holding one back from achieving their goals in life..

Vel Murugan - Peackock

You know him right? The OTHER son of Shiva and Parvati?...the vain, arrogant one whose dichotomous charms make him endearing to his Pleiadean following...The peacock represents vanity, pride, flashiness but also beauty and fragility in the positive.

Durga/Kali - The Tiger/Lion.

This one is easy right? Courage vs ruthlessness... strength vs power. To subdue impulsiveness when making emotional decisions , means to direct the energy of Shakti through the planes of Bhur, Bhuvah and Swarga.

I will say more later.

Aum Namah Shivaya
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  #5  
Old 19-04-2020, 11:28 AM
bhakta bhakta is offline
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Tnank you @Shivani Devi for your replies that were truly elucidating. Plus, your explanation about the possibility of venerating vehicles was also interesting. Right now I feel that I am at a crossroads and need to take any decision concerning spiritual life very carefully. One thing is sure that I am not really interested in material pursuits although that doesn't mean that I want to live the life of an ascetic (at least not right now). I just don't want to chase after money or material possession. That's the reason I am not really paying heed to advice that ask me to please certain deity to get something. This is also the reason why I was drawn to the Bhagawat Gita which clearly specifies, in multiple contexts, that one can live a normal life without getting attached to the material goal (any goal, to be precise). Also, I do not have any goal of attaining enlightenment or Mokshya; I'd happily opt taking a number of rebirths before even thinking about it. What I need right now is a sense of security and the feeling of the Diving presence, whatever be its form. On the physical level however I desire more courage and mental toughness. I don't need God to solve all my problems and keep me from encountering dangers but provide me strength (mental and physical) to either solve those problems or to accept them with might and main. I'd be really happy if you can provide some insights regarding how to incorporate both goals - i) getting in touch with the Divine (non-material) and ii) building courage (partly material) venerating a god/few gods. Thank you.
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Old 19-04-2020, 04:41 PM
peteyzen peteyzen is offline
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Ultimately all of the gods are aspects, facets of the same diamond. The same one source of all souls and atmas - Paramatman.
Pick the aspect of the divine that appeals to you and totally immerse yourself into them. Surrender to them, love them. There is no wrong choice if your aspiration is true.
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Old 19-04-2020, 04:48 PM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is offline
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worship bhakti

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhakta
Tnank you @Shivani Devi for your replies that were truly elucidating. Plus, your explanation about the possibility of venerating vehicles was also interesting. Right now I feel that I am at a crossroads and need to take any decision concerning spiritual life very carefully. One thing is sure that I am not really interested in material pursuits although that doesn't mean that I want to live the life of an ascetic (at least not right now). I just don't want to chase after money or material possession. That's the reason I am not really paying heed to advice that ask me to please certain deity to get something. This is also the reason why I was drawn to the Bhagawat Gita which clearly specifies, in multiple contexts, that one can live a normal life without getting attached to the material goal (any goal, to be precise). Also, I do not have any goal of attaining enlightenment or Mokshya; I'd happily opt taking a number of rebirths before even thinking about it. What I need right now is a sense of security and the feeling of the Diving presence, whatever be its form. On the physical level however I desire more courage and mental toughness. I don't need God to solve all my problems and keep me from encountering dangers but provide me strength (mental and physical) to either solve those problems or to accept them with might and main.

Nice to know that material goals are not top most priority and you wish to have increased divinity in your life. While it is not required to leave material goals and activity to be a spiritual , it is important to have spiritual orientation that is relatively more than more than material orientation .This slight orientation practiced day in day out is good enough to build a good reservoir of spirituality over life time . In one way pursuing your material activity (business/profession/job) honestly is also one kind of spirituality .

Re-births are given and there is not doubt about it . But re-birth into human species is not guaranteed . A being can get the species which is suited best to his/her spiritual orientation /development at the time of death in his/her last life. This is the law of evolution (of soul/spirit and having nothing to do with law of evolution as propounded by Darwin ) .

Quote:
I'd be really happy if you can provide some insights regarding how to incorporate both goals - i) getting in touch with the Divine (non-material) and ii) building courage (partly material) venerating a god/few gods. Thank you.

1. Continuity , consistency in thoughts, speeches & action , integrity ,intensity ,fearlessness , compassion , alertness, are some of the key variables that defines the spirituality/divinity within one's life .

2. As I understand you want to gather some courage to venerate God. Though this may sound bit odd to someone , this may really be the case for many . For decades and centuries the spirituality has been the domain of the innocents / selfish / dogmatic / superstitious / losers . So anybody talking of God or religion is associated with such people .Even one's near and dear one's may not like one talking about God/religion due to prevalent mis-information about it . We can see the anonymous names on spiritual forums with this being one main reason . The remedy to this is to be convinced yourself with firm conviction about God . Fearlessness is the first quality required of devotee (12th Chapter Bhagvad Geeta ). In spirituality seeker alone can help seeker . You need to be alert enough not to develop any negative traits /association due to your beliefs .
If your beliefs are scientific , genuine and actions are in conformity with your beliefs , you don't have to fear anything .

Do elaborate your question if you intend to ask anything different.
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Old 20-04-2020, 01:27 PM
peteyzen peteyzen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH
But re-birth into human species is not guaranteed . A being can get the species which is suited best to his/her spiritual orientation /development at the time of death in his/her last life. This is the law of evolution (of soul/spirit and having nothing to do with law of evolution as propounded by Darwin ) .

I love what you are saying in your replies, I would however ask you to consider this statement above. It is commonly believed that this is the case. It is not important for the development of the soul and in the daily endeavours, but, I would ask you to consider the possibility that it might not be correct.
You see this whole experience is an evolution (as you mentioned) it is an evolution of the soul. because once we have achieved a human soul we cannot go back. Animals operate in soul groups - a very different thing- and their relationship with karma is very different to ours, they do not create it as we do, their level of consciousness is not high enough. Once we achieve a human soul we do not ever go backwards. The misconception comes from a misinterpreted line in one of the scriptures, that said If a man behaves like an animal he will live his next life (as) like an animal. What the line meant was that you will suffer a low birth and have a very difficult human life. Whatever bad deeds we undertake as a human, those terrible things we do to others, could never be appreciated properly if our next life was as an animal, our level of consciousness would mean we wouldn't get back what we gave out.. We suffer the next life after bad deeds as a human and we experience what we did to others, every large and tiny dreadful deed. It has to be this way otherwise the contrary karma, when we do good and gain both the human and spiritual benefits would not apply.
God wants us back, the achievement of a human soul is a massive thing, we do not re birth as animals. But I know most people believe we do.
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Old 20-04-2020, 02:30 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Ditto for me, peteyzen.
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Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
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Old 20-04-2020, 03:26 PM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is offline
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re-birth into human species

Quote:
Originally Posted by peteyzen
I love what you are saying in your replies, I would however ask you to consider this statement above. It is commonly believed that this is the case. It is not important for the development of the soul and in the daily endeavours, but, I would ask you to consider the possibility that it might not be correct.
You see this whole experience is an evolution (as you mentioned) it is an evolution of the soul. because once we have achieved a human soul we cannot go back. Animals operate in soul groups - a very different thing- and their relationship with karma is very different to ours, they do not create it as we do, their level of consciousness is not high enough. Once we achieve a human soul we do not ever go backwards. The misconception comes from a misinterpreted line in one of the scriptures, that said If a man behaves like an animal he will live his next life (as) like an animal. What the line meant was that you will suffer a low birth and have a very difficult human life. Whatever bad deeds we undertake as a human, those terrible things we do to others, could never be appreciated properly if our next life was as an animal, our level of consciousness would mean we wouldn't get back what we gave out.. We suffer the next life after bad deeds as a human and we experience what we did to others, every large and tiny dreadful deed. It has to be this way otherwise the contrary karma, when we do good and gain both the human and spiritual benefits would not apply.
God wants us back, the achievement of a human soul is a massive thing, we do not re birth as animals. But I know most people believe we do.

Hi Pete ,

Thanks for appreciation and elaborate point based query .

Now this can be answered at many level reviewing fundamental assumptions underlying the question .

1. Progress and evolution is one-directional - Invalidity of such assumptions can be seen from the down and fall of various individuals / companies / countries . To remain at top everybody one has to everything right and correct . A slight lethargy / slight complacency / slight mistake practiced consistently can throw one out of top very soon.

2. Human species has more importance /precedence than other species in front of God Though God has given lot of advantages of language , grammar , advanced communication , advanced logic , mathematics , statistics , software/ IT etc , it does not mean human species is His favourite. He (God ) expects human species to use these advantages to ameliorate the living on this planet for all . If He feels the human species is not really performing this fiduciary/trusteeship role rightly , He can give that role to somebody else in the evolution journey .

3. Now again viewing this as punishment is also extremely wrong . God loves us and He wants our spirit to live in a flesh which will be best suited for our spiritual qualities. And accordingly after our death our spirit merges with matters which are eaten by the species best suited for that and we take birth in that species . Other species do not have to bother about education , marriage , relationships , jobs , bosses , taxes, ailments - so many advantages if those bothers one now .

4. Finally the soul which has kept the flame of spirituality alive till end in the image of God will definitely have human form for God may have many more roles and responsibilities for him.

Maybe my answers may not help. But we are here to learn and understand the laws / rules / expectations of God and we can not mend it as per our liking .
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