Invitation to question my view

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Consciousness cannot escape duality. It IS duality. Object subject.

That is very close if not the same definition for the word "consciousness "I think Buddha had from reading some of his writings or teachings. I define and use the word very differently but I know what Buddha was using it for. Actually I think some modern popular teachers use it how you are there too. Buddha refused to give a word for the observer or what we would call the "real self." I think Buddha basically used the word consciousness to refer to what we 2000 years later define as the ego.

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

You will be a duality consciousness for all eternity, because you cannot know the absolute. Its as simple as 1+1=2.

If we leave the body and it's mind, how can we continue to experience or be duality? The brain is the creator of thought. No body, no brain, no thought. Experience and our consciousness itself will be completely different out of the body and brain. Perception will be completely different. The perceiver will no longer be experiencing though the filter of thought and the conditioned self. All experience and perception will be direct and one will experience the true nature of things and not the body minds subjective interpretation.

I think you are right about duality in one way. We will always be aware of our center in relation to space. But I think that's because that's realty. We exist as a reference point of perception and awareness. We are like an "atom" of awareness in God's infinite field.

[Maisy]

I think there is a lot more to the idea of "me and that" or subject and object than we realize. I had a philosophy class once and we were told to go outside, sit down, and look at a tree. We were told to drop all ideas and beliefs and opinions and thoughts about what we were looking at. Don't even name it a tree. Just be aware of it without any preconceived notion of it.

Dropping all ideas and thoughts and concepts about anything is not easy. To let go of all conceptual knowledge. But if one is able to do it, everything changes. The tree is still a tree, you are still looking at it, but it changes into this mysterious thing. This alive thing. It is as alive as we are. Everything "feels" different. It's like we are in an alien world and everything is fresh and new and mysterious. Nothing is taken for granted anymore. Our brains and egos take the most crazy far fetched mysterious thing, like the fact we are living on a ball hurling around a sun at 67,000 miles per hour in a seemingly infinite space in bodies and brains we barely understand, and we developed microscopes and looked smaller and smaller and discovered everything is made of these tiny particles.... and those made of even smaller particles....

The sidewalk we are walking on is not a solid at all. The spaces between the atoms are vast, and we are not looking at a tree or a person, no light waves are bouncing off something and entered our eyes and the brain does trillions of manipulations and calculations to make it all appear as it does. We are living in a mystery and the power of our brain is to make it mundane. Water is one of the most amazing things. What is a liguid really? Our bodies are over 50% water! We are not experiencing subject and object ever, we are experiencing a false interpretation of thought. An idea. A subjective opinion of reality.

[Redchic12]

Omg Viswa any chance of giving us an “in a nutshell” version of what you want to say. Lol

I think you’ve written a book instead of comments.

I’m just wondering whether these comments should be under “Hinduism” as there so many Indian words and meanings.

Just a thought. No offence.

[kris]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

I’m just wondering whether these comments should be under “Hinduism” as there so many Indian words and meanings.

The word Brahman derives from the root √bṛṁh which means to grow, increase, expand. I therefore take the meaning of Brahman to be that which has grown or is growing. Hence, I think, it means everything that exists or the totality. The best word for it in English is, in my opinion, the universe or the Universe. Hope this helps some.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Maisy

That is very...
...in God's infinite field.

Your consciousness is vibrational. Outside of the body, it is still vibration and it is still unable to merge with the absolute. Because the absolute is not relative or vibrational.
There are vibrations beyond time and space already right now. Those are still also not the absolute. Just a fractal of a fractal of a falractal. Infinite dualities.

The absolute already is now. Unknowable. Now is all there is. Dying will not change the vibrationality that we are. It might change the vibration. But not the vibrationality that we are itself. The relativity that we are already is right now ever changing. So in a sense we are dying all the time. Every change is a total change. We cannot become one with the unchanging. Because there is NO BECOMING possible there. We can only relatively become a different kind of relativity.

Which again means we are stuck in duality forever.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by kris

The word Brahman...
...this helps some.

That which expands also contracts. So it is again a vibration of relativity and duality. Not the absolute. Absolute cannot be known, because there is no object/subject there. No consciousness. No relativity. No vibration. No awareness. No duality.

We are awareness and we are relative and dualistic forever. Growing and expanding and contracting. Duality in infinite different variations.

The only nondual thing about us is the absolute newness and uniqueness of every new here and now that doesn't become new but is simply being new. But that can also not be known. It is too absolute in its uniqueness for consciousness to know anything in and of or about it.

[movingalways]

Ewwerrin: You will be a duality consciousness for all eternity, because you cannot know the absolute. Its as simple as 1+1=2.

The absolute in relation to the projection of consciousness is not 1 + 1 = 2 implying they are separate realities (impossible!). Ponder this for a moment: if you were truly forever and forever IN duality, would you become aware of the absolute? A more accurate "equation" of the relationship between the Absolute and its projection of consciousness would be: 1 projects 2, 1 realizes 2 is a suffering-causing projection, 1 absorbs/loves 2 unto 1.

The highest understanding is that you as the projection of consciousness cannot know You as the non-projected Absolute by way of thought, but that you as the Witness of both may use thought that does not project form to enfold you as the projection of form unto You, the formless Absolute. Is this relationship of You reconciling you an expression of belief in duality? No, rather, it is an acknowledgement of a belief in duality that is no longer present. In other words, the duality of thought is used, but it is realized to be a tool or a way, not a permanent reality.

Sage words from Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj (note that he acknowledges a temporary relationship between the Witness and its projection of consciousness). I've bolded the words I believe are most relevant to our conversation:

"There must be love in the relation
between the person who says
‘I am’ and the observer of the ‘I am’.
As long as the observer,
the inner self; the ‘higher’ self
considers himself
apart from the observed,
the ‘lower’ self,
despises it and condemns it,
the situation is hopeless.
It is only when the observer (‘vyakta’) accepts the person (‘vyakti’)
as a projection or manifestation of himself, and so to say, takes the self into the Self,
the duality of ‘I’ and ‘this’ goes
and the identity of the outer and the inner,
the Supreme Reality manifests itself."


Note: there are some who claim that they awakened to their Absolute Self and instantly, their belief in duality ended. I cannot say that an immediate and permanent awakening is not possible, but I know of no one who hasn't gone through the process of awakening in graduated 'steps.'

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Maisy

If we leave the body and it's mind, how can we continue to experience or be duality? The brain is the creator of thought. No body, no brain, no thought.

Many would disagree with this. Is the brain really the creator of thought? Or does the brain simply act as the receiver of thoughts?

Peace

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by movingalways

The absolute in relation...
... of awakening in graduated 'steps.'

That's just a relative awakening, of which there are infinite, and all are equally meaningless and dualistic and illusionary. It replaces one duality with another. Such is consciousness already always anyway. No need to go through the process you mentioned. Consciousness already always replaces one duality with other dualities all the time. Its what consciousness is. A duality.
One cannot awake into nonduality. It cannot be experienced or realised. There is no becoming there. You cannot become your way into nonduality.

All becoming are therefor illusion. And consciousness is in an eternal state of becoming. There is no escape from duality for consciousness thus.

It is not something anyone wishes to hear. It is absolutely hopeless. But it is the reality of the situation. Consciousness is object/subject. Doesnt matter if you change the object/subject, it is still dualistic. You can change it all you want, till you cannot even recognize it anymore. That confusion does not imply one has reached nonduality. That's simply not possible. Nonduality is unreachable. It cannot become. There is no becoming there. One cannot become nondual. One cannot transcend the self of consciousness and its duality. it is eternally dualistic.

[movingalways]

Ewwerin, if it is your understanding that reality eternally vibrates/divides itself even when it knows that its source does not vibrate or is not divided then that is your understanding. So be it but wisdom guides me otherwise and although I don't know this for certain, based on the up and down moods of your posts compared with the steadiness of mine, my guess is that my mind is quiet and still and yours is not. That's the thing about thinking in terms of a permanent duality, consciousness is at the mercy of the recycling opposites.