Is It All Predestined?

[Starman]

As I see it there are two issues when it comes to human death; one issue is the time of death and I have met a lot of people who believe that no one dies until it is their time to die.

I also hold this belief because I have seen a lot of people die, some because of the severity of their condition who should have died but did not, and others who had a minor condition who should not have died but they did. This lead me to believe that the same thing does not kill everyone, some people die from a seemingly freak happenstance, and maybe we are all on a very individual death clock.

So this perspective assumes an individual predisposition, which brings me to the second issue, which is the method by which a person dies. If we all have a date and time stamp for our death, is the method of our death also predestined?

Not everyone dies quietly in bed, some die tragically in great pain and suffering. What about someone who is murdered, was that predestined for that person? What about suicide; was that person destined to take their own life. The method of death; why some people die peacefully while others die tragically in great pain and suffering. Can we just say it was their karma to die that way.

The time of human death and the method of human death are the only variables when it comes to death. Otherwise it does not matter when or how, as death comes to every human body. Whatever has a beginning has an ending.

[Traveler]

I think it is pre-planned as much as can be planned with free will in play. We're given a play-book as it were, with lessons we agree we need to learn with the people we need to learn them from and then we get into a very uncontrolled environment with free will all over the place. You have it, the people in your group have it. The guy driving down the street who is driving too fast and not paying attention as you cross the street has it. I'm not sure the time or mode of death is even considered for most unless they decide it to be.

[Starman]

I raise this query because as I have said, I have seen lots of people die in all age groups and in all sorts of ways.
In my youth as a U.S. Army combat medic in Vietnam during time of war, later as an ambulance paramedic in
Colorado, and still later as a nurse working in a hospital emergency room and on a burn unit.

I have carried dead babies, infants, in my arms, which is a more powerful experience then seeing the death of
someone who is an adult or elderly. Also surviving loved ones react differently depending on when and how their
loved one died. They react differently if it was a suicide then if it was death from a terminal illness, or differently
if it was a homicide then if it was sudden death from an accident, etc.

I have talked to lots of people about death and many, if not most, will quote the Bible verse which says,
“For everything there is a season, a time for every purpose under heaven. A time to be born, a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to harvest.” I have found that lots of people believe that each human being has
a predetermined time when they will die, and maybe even a predetermined way that they will die.

[hazada guess]

I believe it is predestined but when we incarnate,we forget all about it.We have free will so if we knew, we would do anything to prevent that from happening.
However,I,myself have a pretty good idea of how I'm going to pass though when,I'm not clear about.

[pixiedust]

What do you think, Starman?

[kris]

Originally Posted by Starman

Can we just say it was their karma to die that way.

I think predestination is not compatible with the concept of karma. How karma plays out in our lives can be compared to card game of bridge to some extent. This analogy has limitations. The hand we are dealt with in bridge is determined by chance, and how it is played is up to the player. The hand we receive at birth is governed by past karma and not chance. But we have free will to play the game of life using our skill just like a bridge player.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Traveler

I think it is pre-planned as much as can be planned with free will in play. We're given a play-book as it were, with lessons we agree we need to learn with the people we need to learn them from and then we get into a very uncontrolled environment with free will all over the place.

Wow, this was well said...and I agree. And includes the idea of karma/ lessons being played out.

Of course, try as we may with good intentions coming here, we still mess up!
Like the couple that killed each other 52 times in diff lives. (Ref Dr. Brian Weiss).

My understanding is, Starman, we include 'Exit Points" in our lives...we choose to take them or continue on.
We also, make agreements - we will live a short life...or we will take on a long illness for the sake
of our entire Soul Group to grow from, for example.

Some, change our minds and retreat before we are even born, thus, still births.
Then, again ...there really are accidents in intersections and we pass over unexpectedly! (Which surprised me.)

(Ref books by Robert Schwartz, always about Our Soul's Plan ..maybe the name of one, ha.)

Good topic, I can see why you would wonder!

[hazada guess]

Good post Miss Hepburn and I've studied all that. I have had two exit points and now my task has been completed so at 61 years old,when the next exit point is reached,I'm going to take it.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by hazada guess

I believe it is predestined but when we incarnate, we forget all about it. We have free will so if we knew, we would do anything to prevent that from happening.

From the writings of Alice Bailey:

It might be said that within the limits of the intelligent direction of the intelligent man, there is free will, as far as activity in the human kingdom is concerned. Where no mind activity is present, and where there is no power to discriminate, to analyse and to choose, there is no free will. Within the vaster processes of the Plan, however, as it includes the entire planetary evolution, there is, for the tiny unit, man, no free will. He is subject, for instance, to what we call "acts of God", and before these he is helpless. He has no choice and no escape.

The great distinction between the human kingdom in the three worlds, and the other kingdoms in nature, is the factor of free will. In the matter of death, this free will has, in the last analysis, a definite relation to the soul; the will of the soul is either consciously or unconsciously followed, where the decision of death is concerned.

I would suggest that this last sentence excludes suicide, which is a decision made by the personality desiring to escape the challenges of physical incarnation.

Peace

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by hazada guess

Good post Miss Hepburn and I've studied all that. I have had two exit points and now my task has been completed so at 61 years old,when the next exit point is reached,I'm going to take it.

I believe my soul will also! I'm am getting rid of 'stuff' left and right.
My trash man must think I'm moving and Goodwill is happy to see me coming.
What if I don't have another Exit point til I'm 88, tho...
sigh...I'll just make the best of it...lol...as usual!