Salvation for the Dead (aka, shadow people)

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by sky123

Ah, but, I am not saying it is wrong just that it is not true for all

Yet, it would be true for those who are of the Christian faith and only one from the Christian faith could refute it, is what I am getting at.

[sky]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

Yet, it would be true for those who are of the Christian faith and only one from the Christian faith could refute it, is what I am getting at.

You will see that not all Christians would agree that its true, read Yessys reply, but each to their own....

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by sky123

I am open to all interpretations Necro, so lets hear it

You asked for it. lol

The 'rod' and the 'staff' refers to what Hindus call the 'Meru Danda' or the spinal cord and within it is the Shusumna Nadi or the path of Kundalini (that Serpent which Christians hate so much).

*refer to the Caduceus or the Staff of Hermes*

The 'oil' is the energy of Kundalini or the Shakti and 'anointing one's head with oil' refers to the opening of the Crown Chakra and the subsequent 'Baptism of Fire' which the Christians speak of.

The 'cup overflowing' means that the energy of Shakti (oil) cannot be contained within the Crown Chakra (Sahasrara) and pours out, leading to the Grace of God or being baptised by the 'Holy Spirit'.

Walking through the 'shadow of death' means to acknowledge other paths through which kundalini can rise, leading to all sorts of torment and torture if not fully prepared...so being comforted by the 'rod' and the 'staff' means to bring the energies back into Shushumna Nadi or the main spinal nerve that links heaven and hell.

[sky]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

You asked for it. lol

The 'rod' and the 'staff' refers to what Hindus call the 'Meru Danda' or the spinal cord and within it is the Shusumna Nadi or the path of Kundalini (that Serpent which Christians hate so much).

*refer to the Caduceus or the Staff of Hermes*

The 'oil' is the energy of Kundalini or the Shakti and 'anointing one's head with oil' refers to the opening of the Crown Chakra and the subsequent 'Baptism of Fire' which the Christians speak of.

The 'cup overflowing' means that the energy of Shakti (oil) cannot be contained within the Crown Chakra (Sahasrara) and pours out, leading to the Grace of God or being baptised by the 'Holy Spirit'.

Walking through the 'shadow of death' means to acknowledge other paths through which kundalini can rise, leading to all sorts of torment and torture if not fully prepared...so being comforted by the 'rod' and the 'staff' means to bring the energies back into Shushumna Nadi or the main spinal nerve that links heaven and hell.

Thanks, that is really interesting. I like to read interpretations from other beliefs.
What is hell to a Hindu ?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by sky123

Thanks, that is really interesting. I like to read interpretations from other beliefs.
What is hell to a Hindu ?

A lot of Christian beliefs have infiltrated Hinduism over the past millennia or so, therefore you'll have some Hindus who believe in a place of torment and damnation and those who do not. For the most part, we believe as do many Christians that hell is not to know the Grace of God (liberation/moksha/nirvana/samadhi etc) and heaven is to know it...to experience it directly.

Hell would be akin to the Buddhist version of suffering in whatever lifetime it manifests and heaven would be attaining the status of Bodhisatva. If a Bodhisatva ever went to a 'hell' do you think for one moment this would phase them in the slightest?

In the astral/physical, hell is all the regions that exist from the Heart Chakra down...those associations that get us caught up with attachment to ego, pride, lust, anger etc and heaven is associated with all the Chakras from Heart and up, those associated with love, compassion, honesty, vigilance, discernment, tolerance etc.

To be one with God means to bring the energies up through all states of existence, through hell, heaven and into that which is beyond or transcends any notion of it.

[jojo50]

Originally Posted by lowlyservant

.

You said...”The soul is restored (salvaged) by the divine power of Christ when we die and before entering heaven to be with God, Jesus, the angels, family and friends”.

But that not true according to the scriptures, which I truly follow. The “SOUL” is NOT a “spirit” or “ghost” that leave the body once it dies. The SOUL is LIVING BEING, I will post those scriptures again ,(Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul).

Again, Jesus showed the SOUL being a living person ,(And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry”, Luke 12:19). in order to have a “SOUL”, in Heaven, one must be a living “BEING”, There's only “SPIRITS” in Heaven.

You said “I believe the "soul" and the spirit to be the same thing. And, I have seen and spoke with spirits/souls of family members while they were sleeping”.

understand that's your beliefs, but that's NOT what the scripture shows. “souls” and “spirits”, are not the same, though we are taught this.

Again... the SOUL became a living being, once the “BREATH OF LIFE”, were blown into the nostrils of Adam. The “SPIRIT”, is that life force with keeps man living. once the life or Spirit is removed, by means of death. The “Spirit” or “BREATH OF LIFE”, return back to the one who gave it, Jehovah God and Jesus.

You said “Some are demons, but most are the dead. They are the lost souls of the netherworld. It's not that a good spirit from heaven or someone out of their bodies could not cast a shadow. This is possible, but would occur, less often”. Again, NONE are dead people, they are ALL DEMONS.

scriptures shows the dead KNOWS NOTHING ,(Psalm 146:4 “his thoughts goes out”). Now if the dead can still remember the living, wouldn't that means his THOUGHTS didn't perish? And wouldn't that make a God who HATES LIES, a liar? I KNOW Jehovah’s words isn't about lying but truth. Which mean the dead DON'T KNOW ANYTHING at all. Their “SOUL” are dead, not floating around ,burning or held up somewhere.

You said “The soul is immortal. It does not literally die. We are evil and wicked without God in the afterlife". The soul is considered "spiritually dead." So are you saying God's word is a lie? ,(Ezek. 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die). Scriptures shows that the SOUL isn't “immortal"l. The SOUL that is “spiritual dead”, is referring to a living person who isn't living by means of the Holy Spirit or Godly way. But walks in the ways of imperfect man, himself, and/or satan.

You then say “ It is in ruins, without worth or value. The person would had been better off had he/she not been born. The dead soul is in need of salvation...divine restoration”. All humans in God's eyes are of “VALUE and WORTH”, this is why Jehovah God sent his son to save ALL of mankind. It's satan who wants man to believe that if they are “spiritually dead”, they might as well “ not been born”.

Sorry but you're wrong, They dead ISN'T in need of being saved. Because death is the wages of sin, so their sins are paid, thanks to Jesus ,(Rom. 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord). Once one has died, their sins are erased ,(Rom.6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin). so there's NO "hellfire", purgatory, or some other part for them until God decides.

You said “Saul sinned against God by using a medium to contact Samuel. He was not being deceived by a demon”). Wrong! Saul THOUGHT he was speaking with Samuel, because he wanted to believe that. Again... Saul KNEW using mediums would be from satan. He also KNEW FROM SCRIPTURES, the dead couldn't communicate with the living. Oh yes!... he was fooled by a demon, just as demons fool MANY today.

As for the “fires of hell”, I NEVER said it was “literal”. We KNOWS there's NO FIERY place for ANYONE, Though MANY believe there is! And NO “SPIRIT”, isn't in any condition. Because the “spirit”, as far as dead people are concern , isn't in them anymore. Again, the “spirit”, is the breath of life God placed in man so that he can wake up and move around. Once he died, that spirit/ breath of life was removed.

[lowlyservant]

Originally Posted by Yessy

Show me from Scripture where you get to the concept that Atonement can come through man's good works.

See Isaiah 64:6

Holman Christian Standard Bible
All of us have become like something unclean, and all our righteous acts are like a polluted garment; all of us wither like a leaf, and our iniquities carry us away like the wind.

I would rather say that to put hope in any man or man's good acts is to cut short the redemptive work of Christ.

The Old Testament sacrifices for atonement were shadow types pointing to Christ Jesus's perfect offer as the real Lamb of God and since the prophetic shadow types were fulfilled, all we need now is Jesus Christ Himself.

Here, in scripture, money given to the Church as an act of good works that are offered up as atonement for sins.

2 Maccabees 12:38-46.

38 So Judas having gathered together his army, came into the city Odollam: and when the seventh day came, they purified themselves according to the custom, and kept the sabbath in the place.
39 And the day following Judas came with his company, to take away the bodies of them that were slain, and to bury them with their kinsmen, in the sepulchres of their fathers.
40 And they found under the coats of the slain some of the donaries of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbiddeth to the Jews: so that all plainly saw, that for this cause they were slain.
41 Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden.
42 And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain.
43 And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection,
44 (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)
45 And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.
46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

The blood of the Lamb does not cover those that died without faith. They need atonement accepted by Christ for the forgiveness of their sins. Christ holds the keys to death and Hades and can thus set them free.

[lowlyservant]

Originally Posted by sky123

It may be true to you but not to others

Yes, but I believe that there is only one truth, and not the various paths that so many preach.

[sky]

Originally Posted by lowlyservant

Yes, but I believe that there is only one truth, and not the various paths that so many preach.

But the problem is which is the ' One truth '
Yourself and you friends on here can't even agree on interpretations of biblical verses

It's not so easy is it ?.

[Yessy]

Originally Posted by lowlyservant

Here, in scripture, money given to the Church as an act of good works that are offered up as atonement for sins.

2 Maccabees 12:38-46.

38 So Judas having gathered together his army, came into the city Odollam: and when the seventh day came, they purified themselves according to the custom, and kept the sabbath in the place.
39 And the day following Judas came with his company, to take away the bodies of them that were slain, and to bury them with their kinsmen, in the sepulchres of their fathers.
40 And they found under the coats of the slain some of the donaries of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbiddeth to the Jews: so that all plainly saw, that for this cause they were slain.
41 Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden.
42 And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain.
43 And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection,
44 (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)
45 And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.
46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

The blood of the Lamb does not cover those that died without faith. They need atonement accepted by Christ for the forgiveness of their sins. Christ holds the keys to death and Hades and can thus set them free.

Ok, point taken if the Maccabees book is part of Scripture that is.
But that book is not in my Bible.
Any other Scripture that is not in apocryphal books that you can offer in support?

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/arti...the-maccabees/