Re-learning & kicking perfection out the door?

My husband originates from a family with high standards for themselves. I can see that discipline, shame are 2 ways of achieving that. He himself did not realize that the standard were put too high, to him this was normal.

For years now I have been trying to re-learn a child to not go down the same path as dear old daddy (my husband). The way I have tried to go about it is just talking and reassuring of our love (with no demands). For the child to feel loved for who it is, not what it does. I will say stuff like even if you murder me I'll always love you. Just to get the picture. (now hoping I'm not gonna get murdered ;)

I have noticed that when ever the child has happened, God forbid, how could this happen, have made a mistake, and I've said something about it, that the child has a physical and emotional strong reaction that I can only read off as anxiety. I've always gone easy on this child.

I think if i should be honest here that the child took damage from having been watched by it's grandparents too much when it was little, before i put an end to that. I have felt lots of times as if I have been on this ship trying to steer it away from hitting an ice berg in order for me, how I view it, get the child to safety. It's been hard as this is the perfect family with a high status outside of the family as well how on earth I was going to go about to prove that there was something seriously wrong here, in my opinion that is.

I have asked questions that are not leading. I have asked "What do you think?" about stuff, any stuff (not grown up stuff, not involving a child into any of that). Even if the child goes "I don't know", I'm thinking at least I am trying to send the message, set something in motion, that the child has a right and should listen to it's own voice and be allowed and even encouraged to express it. That is not something btw that is taught out if you originate from a narcissistic home where only one voice gets that. I honestly never cared about if I was not approved, that it was as if I took this grandchild away, and if that made me the narcissist's number 1 enemy, not when it came down to parenting. I remember the time my husband said to me "I trust you" (as far as child raising went). It was as if he gave me the get-go-ticket. It is out of the question btw for us to have ever used any kind of physical punishment. I did have a vulnerability for sure when it came to my fear that my husband would be influenced enough and start seeing me the way his narcissistic parent saw me, as I used to love my husband very much. Once I got rid of that vulnerability, it was a free high way for me. I was free. I did not get that courageous until unfortunately I did not care if I lost my husband or not. It had to really get to that. Took me time to even realize what my vulnerability had been all this time before. I too had high demands on myself and was used to delivering, so I too am responsible. I too was not aware before. I too fear I have done my share of damage from the child just watching me.

My husband has always had a soft spot for this child and even if that has helped, I do think that the child having watched him and his parent in action is contagious enough to too try to reach for perfection. I too have been running around til I grew tired of it and went "Wait a minute" trying to reach the unreachable just so that my husband would not be irritated when he walked through the door. I too originated from a home with high standards but there was no discipline or shame involved like that. I had a dominant parent who I do not think was in the best of shapes after my parent split who's emotions were those I had to put first, before my own. You sort of get to be a parent to your parent already at a young age and you have to put aside your own emotions, they are not allowed to be there. Later on as I was in a bad relationship (with a psychopath) I remember I was numbed. I couldn't feel or almost think for myself, it was for my own survival. The brain does what it does and you don't always catch up what is happening. For me it was not a conscious decision. I think it was my reptil brain instructing me on how to survive and almost as if the other part of me went to sleep. I think this is what lots of people who have never been in an abusive relationship gets, I get the impression they think we have only ourselves to blame. Too lots of partners to abusers - on their way out - is exactly when there is a danger of their lives which is precisely why they stay and take it. Awareness of the psychological and physical happenings in these type of relationships is needed, I feel, in the society as a total. Unfortunately I don't feel we are there yet, we're on our way though. Ignorance and blaming the victims does not exactly help. Believe me there is enough shame as there is already, both from what the abuser has installed in them and how they feel about themselves. I know the isolated, alone feeling I experienced. The fear you can not even try to describe to someone who's never been there.

Is there another way to re-learn a poor kiddo besides from just talking and trying to play situations down and joke and so on?

The child used to and still does simply take my hand, not say anything, and I could feel it tremble. That was the signal something was up and I would do something about it. I know my hands would tremble if I just did the dish washing while I was in a relationship with my ex. I knew what that meant.

When the child was little it would bite me when over excited and I never said anything about it or reacted in a negative way, I pretended it didn't happen. It was the first physical signs the child showed me. Then when the child began to poke me while we were sitting watching television I knew we were on our way. Then as things progressed the child got softer in its movements and would sit close beside me and hug me, and me having my arm around.

My husband had come from a home dictated by the narc of no touching and that that could be made fun off. He also did not see signs that the child had a physical need to be touched. He would often be carrying the child around but I could see that there was this lack of something and that it came from his parental home's teaching, and told him he really needed to hug his child more. He would do so carefully. He would ask "Do you want a hug?", always with the notion of what the child wanted, not what he wanted. He would say "I love you very much" and too show the child he thought showing physical tenderness was a positive thing. He would show too I think by showing me that in our home so the child would see it.

I noticed there was no place in my husband's first home where it showed there were children or grandchildren, only reserved to an isolated room and neatly tucked away so you could not even see it. I began making visible space in my home from the get go. I noticed one time my husband was in such a hurry to take away a game even if we had not finished playing when I said no , let it stay til we finish it the next time. Next time it would still be there and the child went straight away to sit and play. As a child of divorce I know the feeling of coming into homes and not knowing where your place is, and if it is even, what kind of status you have, only the adults have. Knowing some did not want me there. Trying to adjust and pretend I did not feel that.

I made it so there were ways to restore a children's toys and so on visible in each and every room I think to say this is your home too, you belong here, you have a right to be here just as any grown up, and I am proud to have you here. I would and still have pictures, paintings and other things a child has does, created visibly. You don't see that whatsoever in the home my husband grew up in. If a child of mine makes a painting and they put it on the fridge next time the child goes and visit it is no sign of it anywhere. "Last time I draw them a painting" I know my child said once, having discovered it on it's own. When the child asked what happened to it there was some mumble no one heard. I am sure they had thrown it away.

Any advice on how to move forward? Anything else one can do?

[FairyCrystal]

Why are you asking us here all these questions on issues that could be quite serious? Why don't you take all that to a professional who knows the ins and outs of raising a child with a problem parent?
A professional can guide you in doing the best you can for your children AND yourself.
As it is you are constantly attempting to solve everyone's issues and problems in life, with what I gather little to no support from a partner.
What about you? What about your joy and happiness?
Seriously, go to a professional who can truly help you instead of asking us, people who aren't qualified nor trained, nor have a clear view of what is really going on in your home & family.
The one thing I will say is that telling a child "even if you'd murder me" does not seem very healthy to me. You can take it too far and a child's brain might not be able to process that. After all it's a child, not an adult.
The message should be, I don't approve of everything, but regardless I will still love you.
And, even if I have to put you straight for incorrect actions/behaviour, I still love you.
Something like that.

Seriously, again, get some help in as it sounds like you yourself are struggling with raising kids, which is logical without healthy support. Plus you said you already have a background with abuse so how do you know what is healthy and what not?
Abuse impairs our own filters.
If you truly wish to do good for yourself and your children go see a professional.

[lostsoul13]

I think if you give her space and time and talk to her like she’s an adult (that’s what I missed when mine were growing up.. but they had all the perfect pretend play and they didn’t know what was really going on- it’s a tough world out there but giving it to her like it is will save her more time and effort… she will mature and you can have a friend as well as a daughter vise versa ——

FairyCrystal,

I find the way you ask your questions shows where you yourself are at fault and how you look at me. Who to say professionals are not involved? That is a conclusion you yourself draw.

If my questions or my threads are in any way not suitable it is the owner of the forum to decide.

If you are sick, frustrated, scared or whatever of my threads then no need to read them or reply, but I still do believe you do so because you wish to help out at some level, so for that I thank you.

There is nothing wrong in asking for advice, does not mean I will follow everything as if I have no brain of my own and risk a child's well being.

The "murder"-joke is an inside joke BTW that the child knows very well and is not harmed by. It means something else to us. If it sounds terrible to you than I am of course sorry about that, but please don't be alarmed. We have said many times just what you advice, but thank you for that advice, that you could not have known.

Originally Posted by lostsoul13

I think if you give her space and time and talk to her like she’s an adult ...she will mature and you can have a friend as well as a daughter vise versa ——

Thank you :)

[FairyCrystal]

Indeed I only wish to help so thank you for understanding that :)
As for the rest... that just goes to show how difficult it is for people -strangers- on a forum to give advice on an issue. Which is what I also said. We don't have the ins and outs, we only get whatever text you provide which will not be the 3 dimension version of a situation.
Apart from that none of us here are -as far as I know- qualified to deal with such issues.
Now if you wish to ask such people (us) advice on complex situations then of course that is your right. And I do hope you get something worthwhile. But given all the above it is a bit of a risk.
I know I can skip, and often I do, but sometimes I see something and wish to help you. But I'll try and refrain from doing so.
Wishing you a lot of luck.

Thank you FairyCrystal :)

I understand the alarm-reaction as child/children are involved and you thinking no professional is. Too your own experiences regarding narcissism and mental abuse in relationship and you seeing warning signs and trying to help me, so thank you:). Yes, there is support and collaboration, individually and as a whole (family-wise) at this stage, better late then never. I'm thinking on a spiritual forum spiritual people could have had further insights on advice that too could help to make a child feel better so why I wrote.

Autism is too in the picture and I feel quilt for not before continuing on the path that was first discovered by someone professional when the child was really young but I was back then left with no means as it was dismissed. We did what we could at the time. Just like they did my husband when he was a child they let it go. He learned to mask it, avoid situations, isolate in order to cope from then on and be somewhat suspicious, despite too being gracious. He's not easy for others to get close to. I did not know it was autism, but I knew it was something, but then it came out as nothing before, regarding the child. I then did not know how much was the damage from the perfectionist and narcissistic grandparent's household influence and so on, but thought then there was the blame. Proving mental abuse taking place from the narcissistic home would it seemed at the time an impossible mission, so best way was to simply avoid it. First key, step to that is awareness and my husband was not at first aware, part of the structure. The change was going to happen regardless, it's just that I got the blame for it and when standing up for me my husband did, by the narc-parent, but we did the right thing. I personally think the narc-parent is a woman-hater, wants women weak and attack on all levels including body-wise (finding an excuse, loop-hole with weight, working out etc to cross boundaries and with no respect for a woman's integrity). I'm not sadly the first woman this happened too and not the last. The narc-parent has a problem with the women entering the family as we are considered on a whole too strong for the narc-parent and a threat even if we look at ourselves as just normal women. We can speak for ourselves, we are educated, we can support ourselves alone. I know I am the best one to recognize manipulation but then again that is a gift from reading people that I have, but it has been helpful for us all. Firs time I ever realized I could see through manipulation was during a past relationship with someone who was very skilled at it.

We were able to scratch off some of the things that could stand out and isolate through love and patience and respect. I believe in positive way of raising, learning, not through negativity and shame and punishments. We've received compliments from professionals so far that what we began doing back in the day was apparently the way to go (despite them letting go in the past that there was something).

The answer has come to me now why it is the way it is, things are better now and I believe if we continue on this path this wonderful child will feel better and better. There has been progress and the child do not take it as bad as before, but I feel there is still a way to go. There is a fear of rejection or being placed as second which will never happen. If and when I say something it is as if everyone in the household really has a reaction to it, I suppose because I only say something when I feel there is a need to.

Me too going in meditation and finding the calm, finding that the answer too will come to me helps.

Thanks for looking out for me, us :)

[Izz]

hello asearcher

tried to send you DM but your inbox is full

Oops, sorry about that, I've fixed it

[Izz]

Thanks asearcher