Waking, Dreaming & Deep Dreamless Sleep

In a little over seven minutes Swami Sarvapriyananda explains three different models of reality https://youtu.be/VxTzC2-4ELg?t=4122

1 - Waking reality is more real than dream reality. This is the common sense approach and in fact how one ordinarily experiences the world. Self realization at this level is intellectual.

2 - Waking reality is no more real than dream reality. This is a more philosophical approach however I do believe it is how the Enlightened experience reality. Self realization at this level is experiential however waking reality, though experienced no differently than dream reality (it's like a waking lucid dream), is treated as in #1 for obvious and practical reasons.

3 - Waking and dream reality contain nothing more than the reality of deep dreamless sleep. This is a wholly abstract approach and beggars belief but in essence is the heart of Advaita non-duality.

Samahdi is like deep dreamless sleep. Both are like being in a pitch black room, however during dreamless sleep one backs into it still facing outward towards the world whereas during Samahdi one enters it facing inwards, seeking the Absolute.

Getting back to Reality #3. There is only Brahman (Consciousness), even when name, form and function cease to appear. That very same "quality" of being is ever present regardless of the presence or absence of name, from and function. It's right there in everyone's experience but it's largely unrecognized (#1) and sometimes experientially realized (#2) and at other times it's complete and purposeful absorption (Samahdi).

Patanjali described dreamless sleep as a type of mental activity, which is to have an experience of nonexistence. Because he called it activity, he must have thought of it as something different to his yoga (which, of course, requires a still mind). I don't know if yoga and samadhi are supposed to be the same thing, but they seem similar to me.

Do you know of any good resources on the subject of samadhi? I have seen that word used so many different ways, I am never sure what to make of it.

Originally Posted by Aditi

Patanjali described dreamless sleep as a type of mental activity, which is to have an experience of nonexistence. Because he called it activity, he must have thought of it as something different to his yoga (which, of course, requires a still mind). I don't know if yoga and samadhi are supposed to be the same thing, but they seem similar to me.

Do you know of any good resources on the subject of samadhi? I have seen that word used so many different ways, I am never sure what to make of it.

Advaita defines dreamless sleep as an experience of absence of modifications of the mind. Since all modifications of mind are objects, both external objects gathered by our senses or internal objects generated by mind, there's nothing for consciousness to illumine however it still shines.

There are many stages of Samadhi and I suppose I was referring to the deepest state. In that state it is said one is oblivious to both internal and external world. For instance Vivekananda would meditate in a garden and even if swarmed by mosquitoes wouldn't even notice.

I found these two articles and they go into some detail of the various stages. It's quite an intricate system of techniques and resulting states of mind/consciousness.

https://vedicfeed.com/stages-of-samadhi/

https://yogainternational.com/articl...yoga-tradition

I practice mindfulness (mainly breath & sound) and resting in awareness (no object of attending). What I can say is that sometimes, and it's mostly during resting in awareness, time seems to drop out or dilate? It's not necessarily the entire sitting although on rare occasions it does seem to be and in this case it seems like "inside" is much longer than how long I sit though totally effortless, and when the timer goes off it seems like I just started. That experience "inside" is hard to put into words except perhaps bliss in that there is no sensation of body, and mind is absolutely still and there's not even hypnagogic imagery. It's an inky blackness beyond comprehension. It's still, silent, serene, blissful.

I'm sure it's some level of Samadhi but I don't have the formal training to nail it down and in truth it really doesn't matter. The best I can say is it does seem to me to be an experience of absence. It's a very different and distinct state of being.

When I do manage to reach it while practicing mindfulness of breath or sound it's when breath or sound become so subtle they eventually drop away for brief periods and it is very much like resting in awareness, however it's transient and breath or sound eventually become evident again.

What you described is what I always thought the word meant. A deep meditative trance state, one that you can't really describe because there is no particular thing to reference. It wasn't until I started looking at other people's experiences that I got confused.

I think there must be some difference between that state and deep sleep, because dreamless sleep doesn't seem to have a connection to spiritual growth. I don't know what that difference might be, though.

Thank you for linking the articles.

Originally Posted by Aditi

What you described is what I always thought the word meant. A deep meditative trance state, one that you can't really describe because there is no particular thing to reference. It wasn't until I started looking at other people's experiences that I got confused.

I think there must be some difference between that state and deep sleep, because dreamless sleep doesn't seem to have a connection to spiritual growth. I don't know what that difference might be, though.

Thank you for linking the articles.

Here's another take on it and I find lectures very helpful.

https://youtu.be/O3vYwMJXwjY?list=PL...qIg8q6QRm5Y J

He's speaking to Patanjali's Yoga Sutras but as far as I can determine it should apply to any system of techniques even though he categorizes Buddhist mindfulness techniques as a preliminary practice. Loosely speaking there are three stages:

1 - Concentration
2 - Meditation
3 - Samadhi

Here's the technique I referred to as resting in awareness and it is considered an advanced technique.

https://deconstructingyourself.com/d...editation.html

Here's another interesting technique I've barely touched but intend to give more attention in the future.

https://deconstructingyourself.com/n...awareness.html

[Osiris]

Samadhi then is like being in a desert and soaking it all up.

[iamthat]

In addition to the three states of waking, dreaming and dreamless sleep, there is a fourth state of Turiya, pure consciousness which underlies and transcends these three ordinary states.

SantataGamana has written books on both Turiya and Samadhi, and he is usually worth reading.

Peace

Originally Posted by iamthat

In addition to the three states of waking, dreaming and dreamless sleep, there is a fourth state of Turiya, pure consciousness which underlies and transcends these three ordinary states.

SantataGamana has written books on both Turiya and Samadhi, and he is usually worth reading.

Peace

What Advaita will say is there's only Turiya and the other three are but Its illumination of mind/no mind as limited by the jiva. They are our local perception of Turiya veiled by Maya. So yeah, underlies and transcends is a decent description.

[Unseeking Seeker]

This is an interesting topic! I mean, if we correlate it to personal experiences, that is. Theories are read, though not known. Beyond Turiya, we have Turiyatita, says Swami Lakshmanjoo. But what does it really mean?

We as subject and universe (void + manifestation) as object, we may have experienced expansion of consciousness encompassing all. Yet, subject and object remain distinct in such oneness experiences, no matter how profound it appears to us, the subject. As such, we can call oneness experience as interconnectedness rather than oneness.

On one occasion however, in a state of heightened attention in emptiness, I disappeared, space and time vanished and all that was, was vibrant bliss in renewal, as a one without the second ... meaning it was a singularity in the true sense, there being nothing else. Was that samadhi? Don’t know. What is relevant is since there was no ‘me’, how did I get back here or exit that state? Who actuated the singularity and facilitated return to duality? Who else but God, who is all there is.

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

This is an interesting topic! I mean, if we correlate it to personal experiences, that is. Theories are read, though not known. Beyond Turiya, we have Turiyatita, says Swami Lakshmanjoo. But what does it really mean?

We as subject and universe (void + manifestation) as object, we may have experienced expansion of consciousness encompassing all. Yet, subject and object remain distinct in such oneness experiences, no matter how profound it appears to us, the subject. As such, we can call oneness experience as interconnectedness rather than oneness.

On one occasion however, in a state of heightened attention in emptiness, I disappeared, space and time vanished and all that was, was vibrant bliss in renewal, as a one without the second ... meaning it was a singularity in the true sense, there being nothing else. Was that samadhi? Don’t know. What is relevant is since there was no ‘me’, how did I get back here or exit that state? Who actuated the singularity and facilitated return to duality? Who else but God, who is all there is.

If I understand correctly that might be the deepest level of Samadhi. My understanding of the first level of Samadhi is becoming one with the object one is attending, whether it's mantra, breath, candle flame, bodily sensation, etc... There is no subject and object of attention. That separation disappears. One is the mantra, breath, candle flame, bodily sensation, etc... Pretty much non-dual awareness while still in duality.

Perhaps another way to phrase it is one state is where the power of Maya to veil is pierced and the other is where both the power of Maya to veil and project is pierced? Not exactly sure but it seems to make sense from an intellectual perspective.

Here's another resource and when I get the time I'm going to watch both again.

Samadhi Movie, 2017 - Part 1 - "Maya, the Illusion of the Self" https://youtu.be/Bw9zSMsKcwk

Samadhi Movie, 2018 - Part 2 (It's Not What You Think) https://youtu.be/AQL6qcGqQ0Y