Trust.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by sentient

“Nonduality is the great dream which we awaken not from but to”.



Which one is superior – which one is inferior? Zhuang Zhou who had dreamed he was a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuang Zhou?

Or is there an egalitarian reference point – of no reference point, dreaming them both?

*

Neither Tradition or Neo Advaita, but rather a place for both depending on preferences of seekers.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by sentient

“Nonduality is the great dream which we awaken not from but to”.



Which one is superior – which one is inferior? Zhuang Zhou who had dreamed he was a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuang Zhou?

Or is there an egalitarian reference point – of no reference point, dreaming them both?

*

Neither Tradition or Neo Advaita, but rather a place for both depending on preferences of seekers.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by Iamit

Yes so may it be accepted by tradition that experience of another cannot be known and therefore not regarded as inferior.

***

There is no inferior or superior, in my view, since all awakenings are by grace alone. All that is needed, is our prioritisation to connect with our own divinity within. We may call this prioritisation a burning yearning or surrender or unconditioning or contemplation or meditation or yoga or bhakti/prayer or even tantrik/energy practices or any other.

In my view, whatever practice or path we choose to follow initially, also comes in the way, so to speak. We have to ‘let go of’ to get to. Otherwise, we tend to stagnate.

For the sake of plotting the direct experience anyone on this forum may have had, it would be interesting to determine if any ritualised practice they may be engaged in actually enabled the micro ascension or interim realisation they got to. Of course, the mind may try to find a correlation but other than our positioning ourselves to receive grace, no technique per say is infallible. Ultimately, we surrender this (mind-body) to That (our divinity within).

***

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

There is no inferior or superior, in my view, since all awakenings are by grace alone. All that is needed, is our prioritisation to connect with our own divinity within. We may call this prioritisation a burning yearning or surrender or unconditioning or contemplation or meditation or yoga or bhakti/prayer or even tantrik/energy practices or any other.

In my view, whatever practice or path we choose to follow initially, also comes in the way, so to speak. We have to ‘let go of’ to get to. Otherwise, we tend to stagnate.

For the sake of plotting the direct experience anyone on this forum may have had, it would be interesting to determine if any ritualised practice they may be engaged in actually enabled the micro ascension or interim realisation they got to. Of course, the mind may try to find a correlation but other than our positioning ourselves to receive grace, no technique per say is infallible. Ultimately, we surrender this (mind-body) to That (our divinity within).

***

For some there are no distinctions to be made. All is already the divine so nothing to be done for already there is only total connection to the divine. This does not have to be realized as it is already the divine not realizing:).

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by Iamit

For some there are no distinctions to be made. All is already the divine so nothing to be done for already there is only total connection to the divine. This does not have to be realized as it is already the divine not realizing:).

***

Conceptually or in reality?

***

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

Conceptually or in reality?

***

There is no such distinction. The divine is both, each the other and the One Love in Action, dreaming difference where there is no difference whatsoever. So moving from one state to another in no way increases connection to The Divine, for The Divine is already both.

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by Iamit

There is no such distinction. The divine is both, each the other and the One Love in Action, dreaming difference where there is no difference whatsoever. So moving from one state to another in no way increases connection to The Divine, for The Divine is already both.

Well said, you are truly One.

[winter light]

Originally Posted by Iamit

If seekers dont buy into traditional propoganda, there is no problem acceptng the message from Niz about trusting that you are already what you seek, so that dissillusion/despair about practise is no obstacle at all, and may even put one in a most advantageous position to trust.

Yes I found that to be the case. It is amazing what can be gained when you no longer have anything to loose.

Experiencing what another is experiencing is not available to us, so much so that even attempts at such judgments are very suspect, especially if coming from an opposing point of view.

Not directly. But you could, you know, ask them. What do you think about this? How do you feel about that? Then when listening is genuine no amount of opposition is relevant. This whole self-determined non-dual path seems very limiting to me. A friend of mine had a saying, "those other 8 billion people on the planet with you are here for a reason"

[winter light]

And actually, I think that is why Niz was so trusted. He did not just offer ideas but he also asked people sincerely how they thought and felt about things. And took their answers very seriously.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by winter light

And actually, I think that is why Niz was so trusted. He did not just offer ideas but he also asked people sincerely how they thought and felt about things. And took their answers very seriously.

Yes of course experience can be described in conversation, but that doesnt get one any nearer to experiencing the experience of others. For that reason it is never known whether the description accuractely describes the experience.