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Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.
We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.
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30-04-2020, 05:53 PM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
It is also possible that both the 'old' and the 'new' groupie 'teachings' are 'deficient' in significant measure. Witness the histories of 'Capitalism' and 'Communism' as well as Xianity and Islam, for example - such that 'followers' of both 'approaches' are 'smug-blindly' headed for different-side-of-the-road 'ditches'. There is certainly a LOT of 'room' for that, aye what, ' it'man?
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." (Matthew Ch.7)
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Yes there are differences and long may there be, not just tolerance, but a friendly acceptance of such differerences.
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01-05-2020, 03:29 AM
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Experiencer
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Aye to that, NoOne! But there is plenty of 'smug-snob'ery which can be readily witnessed, as well ' truthfully' exposed as and con fronted for being such if one so chooses.
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Lol. So many possibilities...if one so choses.
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01-05-2020, 02:38 PM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Arizona, U.S.A
Posts: 3,453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no1wakesup
Lol. So many possibilities...if one so chooses.
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Indeed! "The body of man is the playground of the Self." (The Bhagavad Gita, Ch.13)
For Gita lovers, the associated text reads
“Arjuna asked: My Lord! Who is God and what is Nature; what is Matter and what is the Self; what is that they call Wisdom, and what is it that is worth knowing? I*wish to have this explained.
Lord Shri Krishna replied: O Arjuna! The body of man is the playground of the Self; and That which knows the activities of Matter, sages call the Self.
I am the Omniscient self that abides in the playground of Matter; knowledge of Matter and of the all-knowing Self is wisdom.
What is called Matter, of what it is composed, whence it came, and why it changes, what the Self is, and what Its power – this I will now briefly set forth.
Seers have sung of It in various ways, in many hymns and sacred Vedic songs, weighty in thought* and convincing in argument.
* Obviously not recommended for non-'thinkers' who are bound to be bamboozled thereby. P.S. Has anyone else here seriously wondered 'who' and 'how' someone was 'nearby' enough to 'overhear' and word-for word report the conversation between Arjuna and Lord Krishna? I often wonder about artfulness of the 'unseen' 'presence' of a videographer in various 'explorer' and 'adventurer' (in the wild) nature/survival 'shows'!
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02-05-2020, 02:07 AM
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Experiencer
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Indeed! "The body of man is the playground of the Self." (The Bhagavad Gita, Ch.13)
For Gita lovers, the associated text reads
“Arjuna asked: My Lord! Who is God and what is Nature; what is Matter and what is the Self; what is that they call Wisdom, and what is it that is worth knowing? I*wish to have this explained.
Lord Shri Krishna replied: O Arjuna! The body of man is the playground of the Self; and That which knows the activities of Matter, sages call the Self.
I am the Omniscient self that abides in the playground of Matter; knowledge of Matter and of the all-knowing Self is wisdom.
What is called Matter, of what it is composed, whence it came, and why it changes, what the Self is, and what Its power – this I will now briefly set forth.
Seers have sung of It in various ways, in many hymns and sacred Vedic songs, weighty in thought* and convincing in argument.
* Obviously not recommended for non-'thinkers' who are bound to be bamboozled thereby. P.S. Has anyone else here seriously wondered 'who' and 'how' someone was 'nearby' enough to 'overhear' and word-for word report the conversation between Arjuna and Lord Krishna? I often wonder about artfulness of the 'unseen' 'presence' of a videographer in various 'explorer' and 'adventurer' (in the wild) nature/survival 'shows'!
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Haven't read the Gita in years.
Beautiful.
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02-05-2020, 02:25 PM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Arizona, U.S.A
Posts: 3,453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no1wakesup
Haven't read the Gita in years.
Beautiful.
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Here's a link to the translation (by Shri Purohit Swami) which the above snippet came from. His version is my favorite (it is out of print and it's copyright has expired, so its OK to download and save a copy if you want to.)
https://davidsundom.weebly.com/uploa...65474/gita.pdf
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02-05-2020, 04:43 PM
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Master
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 2,301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
The statements ascribed to Adams in the thread about him, concerning what to do and how to be, have more to do with Traditional practise than Neo Advaita. Those 'what to do and how to be' things are already Oneness manifest so no increase in connection can possible be achieved by being or doing them. So his advise to be and do those things is not just misleading but huge unnecessary obstacles placed before the seeker.
Traditional Advaita= There are separate persons who can become enlightened by following paths and practises.
Neo Advaita= Separate persons are an illusion so no separate persons who can become enlightened, so no increase in terms of connection by following paths and practise. There can be no increase in connecton to Oneness by changing from one state to another because Oneness is the only reality and already all states, including the state that already appears to be 'you'.
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Thank you for bringing this topic up Iamit, no wonder why people get confused and have conflcts. (you get 2 big thumbs up and 2 big toes up from me :) )
__________________
"Cosmos is perfect order, the sum total of everything"
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02-05-2020, 04:59 PM
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Master
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 2,301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Ah...the duality of non dual concepts begins again.
How I see it, is that Advaita Vedanta follows a more traditional, orthodox and longer lineage of teachers going back to Adi Shankaracharya, Gaudapada and the whole Smarta tradition which is wholly based on Shruti or scriptures of Vedas, like the Upanishads:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smarta_tradition
Neo Advaita is similar to above, but the word "Neo" meaning "New" is a branch of Advaita Vedanta which was propounded by Ramana Maharishi, Swami Vivekananda and other teachers who had great influence in the West, establishing many Ashrams around such countries.
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Discussing non-duality in concepts and narratives is good as long as the discusser and reader is conscious that non-duality is a concept of truth / Brahman / absolute reality of the physical universe that is in front of our eyes. Brahman is all and all is brahman, including non-duality and duality. Edit-all means everything and everything means everything.
__________________
"Cosmos is perfect order, the sum total of everything"
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02-05-2020, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Traditional Advaita= There are separate persons who can become enlightened by following paths and practises.
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Traditional Advaita Vedanta clearly states there is only Brahman and everything else is an appearance within Brahman. Maya. It does not teach there are separate persons. Not even separate souls. Not even Gods. Kali is Maya. Shiva is Maya. All of duality is Maya. Whatever one can point to or conceive of is Maya.
The difference between traditional Advaita Vedanta, Neo-Advaita and Neo-Vedanta are the emphasis on technique(s) to achieve enlightenment, with Neo-Advaita being the least stringent on technique(s).
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02-05-2020, 10:11 PM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
Traditional Advaita Vedanta clearly states there is only Brahman and everything else is an appearance within Brahman. Maya. It does not teach there are separate persons. Not even separate souls. Not even Gods. Kali is Maya. Shiva is Maya. All of duality is Maya. Whatever one can point to or conceive of is Maya.
The difference between traditional Advaita Vedanta, Neo-Advaita and Neo-Vedanta are the emphasis on technique(s) to achieve enlightenment, with Neo-Advaita being the least stringent on technique(s).
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Who or what does Traditional Advaita think engage in practice to "achieve enlightenment"?
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02-05-2020, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Who or what does Traditional Advaita think "achieve enlightenment"?
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"The path of awakening is not about becoming who you are. Rather it is about unbecoming who you are not." ~ Albert Schweitzer
In other words it's not about achieving enlightenment but removing ignorance. To put it another way it's realization "I" is not mind-body (unreal, multiplicity) but pure Consciousness/Awareness (Real, One).
This understanding applies to Advaita Vedanta, Neo-Advaita and Neo-Vedanta.
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