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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #81  
Old 19-11-2020, 11:51 AM
JustASimpleGuy JustASimpleGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ameliorate
Thank you for your time and detailed reply.

I find Mooji's approach of doing nothing, no knowledge to gain or to become enlightened quite astonishing! Just being yourself doesn't cut it when it comes to freeing ourselves from suffering/at the mercy of our ego. It's static - not progressive. Although we may well be connected to the divine source (Brahman), it is not enough just to think that this is so since it's not just a mental exercise i.e. there needs to be some kind of experience of this and that requires application!

The video I mentioned spoke of Mahavakya declaration of the highest truth that can lead to recognising our true non dual nature thereby freeing us from suffering 'if you can grasp and assimilate the powerful implications' and that it can't be easily/quickly gained.

I don't believe there's just one path to become enlightened i.e. attaining inner peace and contentment that never wavers - completely and utterly untouched by daily afflictions of life (e.g. mystical experiences can have a transforming effect; I have had one) but, clearly, Advaita Vedanta is a well established path for those who can follow the necessary disciplines it requires.

Thank you for the links you provided but it is just non dualism that I am currently wanting clarity on (also I'm not a subscriber to youtube else I'd watch your video!).

I am very confused about maya upon reading 'the universe, all beings and the creator are all manifestations of maya (illusion) - unreal in themselves BUT also the universe, all beings and the creator IS Brahman - these are real as Brahman. Conflicting and confusing! Any help, from members here,with making sense of this would be welcome


You don't need to subscribe to the channel to view the videos and you should't even need a YouTube account. If you want a better understanding of Advaita there's really no substitute for lectures by an ordained Advaita scholar. It's just too deep and subtle a philosophy to be fleshed out here and by any member of this forum.


Here's a lecture specifically on Maya. https://youtu.be/MxUXl2YXXL4

Swami Sarvapriyananda gives a discourse on the nature of Maya (Illusion or Ignorance). This lecture is part of a series of talks inspired by Swami Vivekananda's Jnana Yoga.
__________________
"Research your own experience; absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and add what is essentially your own." ~ Bruce Lee

"Of a certainty the man who can see all creatures in himself, himself in all creatures, knows no sorrow." ~ Upanishads

https://tinyurl.com/y2mxr4s2 My YouTube Channel

JASG
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  #82  
Old 19-11-2020, 09:02 PM
JustASimpleGuy JustASimpleGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ameliorate
Thank you for your time and detailed reply.

I find Mooji's approach of doing nothing, no knowledge to gain or to become enlightened quite astonishing! Just being yourself doesn't cut it when it comes to freeing ourselves from suffering/at the mercy of our ego. It's static - not progressive. Although we may well be connected to the divine source (Brahman), it is not enough just to think that this is so since it's not just a mental exercise i.e. there needs to be some kind of experience of this and that requires application!

The video I mentioned spoke of Mahavakya declaration of the highest truth that can lead to recognising our true non dual nature thereby freeing us from suffering 'if you can grasp and assimilate the powerful implications' and that it can't be easily/quickly gained.

I don't believe there's just one path to become enlightened i.e. attaining inner peace and contentment that never wavers - completely and utterly untouched by daily afflictions of life (e.g. mystical experiences can have a transforming effect; I have had one) but, clearly, Advaita Vedanta is a well established path for those who can follow the necessary disciplines it requires.

Thank you for the links you provided but it is just non dualism that I am currently wanting clarity on (also I'm not a subscriber to youtube else I'd watch your video!).

I am very confused about maya upon reading 'the universe, all beings and the creator are all manifestations of maya (illusion) - unreal in themselves BUT also the universe, all beings and the creator IS Brahman - these are real as Brahman. Conflicting and confusing! Any help, from members here,with making sense of this would be welcome


Here's another great video.

What is Advaita? By Swami Sarvapriyananda

https://youtu.be/aGiY_g76-fE
__________________
"Research your own experience; absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and add what is essentially your own." ~ Bruce Lee

"Of a certainty the man who can see all creatures in himself, himself in all creatures, knows no sorrow." ~ Upanishads

https://tinyurl.com/y2mxr4s2 My YouTube Channel

JASG
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  #83  
Old 22-11-2020, 07:09 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ameliorate
I am very confused about maya upon reading 'the universe, all beings and the creator are all manifestations of maya (illusion) - unreal in themselves BUT also the universe, all beings and the creator IS Brahman - these are real as Brahman. Conflicting and confusing! Any help, from members here,with making sense of this would be welcome

Firstly, labels of real and unreal are just ideas, mental constructs which we apply to Creation. Everything is what it is.

Secondly, the paradox is that both are true. All manifestation is an illusion, because all manifestation is impermanent. And all manifestation is real - if the Cause is real then how can the effects be unreal?

My own approach to this apparent paradox is that everything is real on its own level even if it is also an illusion from the perspective of a higher level. And yes, the idea of levels is just another illusion while also being real.

So while we are incarnate in physical form we have to deal with the physical world as a reality. When we discard the physical form then we see our physical life as a brief blip in our existence.

Peace
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  #84  
Old 26-11-2020, 12:35 PM
A human Being A human Being is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Firstly, labels of real and unreal are just ideas, mental constructs which we apply to Creation. Everything is what it is.

Secondly, the paradox is that both are true. All manifestation is an illusion, because all manifestation is impermanent. And all manifestation is real - if the Cause is real then how can the effects be unreal?

My own approach to this apparent paradox is that everything is real on its own level even if it is also an illusion from the perspective of a higher level. And yes, the idea of levels is just another illusion while also being real.

So while we are incarnate in physical form we have to deal with the physical world as a reality. When we discard the physical form then we see our physical life as a brief blip in our existence.

Peace
I'm curious about that bit in bold - why does impermanence = illusion, in your opinion? Not that I'm saying I necessarily disagree, I was just intrigued by the idea.
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  #85  
Old 26-11-2020, 01:16 PM
JustASimpleGuy JustASimpleGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A human Being
I'm curious about that bit in bold - why does impermanence = illusion, in your opinion? Not that I'm saying I necessarily disagree, I was just intrigued by the idea.

That comes from Advaita and the idea is the illusion is seeing the temporal as having inherent existence. Advaita states the physical universe only "borrows" its existence from Brahman which has inherent existence, and in fact is Brahman appearing as name, form and function (appearing as not Brahman). The illusion is not recognizing the temporal as Brahman. Seeing it as a multiplicity instead of One.

The dream analogy is often used. The dream is the illusion and the dream body and entire contents of the dream are unreal, an illusion, and the reality is there's only the dreamer appearing as the dream.

Another analogy is that of the Sun reflected in millions, billions, trillions of drops of water or a face reflected in countless mirrors of different shapes.

So it's not saying physical reality is an illusion or unreal, just not real enough. Another way it's stated is physical reality is transactional reality and Brahman is absolute reality.
__________________
"Research your own experience; absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and add what is essentially your own." ~ Bruce Lee

"Of a certainty the man who can see all creatures in himself, himself in all creatures, knows no sorrow." ~ Upanishads

https://tinyurl.com/y2mxr4s2 My YouTube Channel

JASG
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  #87  
Old 27-11-2020, 01:46 AM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A human Being
I'm curious about that bit in bold - why does impermanence = illusion, in your opinion? Not that I'm saying I necessarily disagree, I was just intrigued by the idea.

Just to add to JASG's comments, there is the idea in Vedanta that that which is real does not change and that which changes is not real.

The nature of manifestation is change - anything which comes into manifestation will eventually go out of manifestation, and thus is impermanent.

So Advaita is about the realisation of the changelessness which underlies all change.

But until we realise that we are stuck in the manifestation and we have to deal with it as a reality.

Peace
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  #88  
Old 27-11-2020, 06:46 AM
JustASimpleGuy JustASimpleGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Just to add to JASG's comments, there is the idea in Vedanta that that which is real does not change and that which changes is not real.

The nature of manifestation is change - anything which comes into manifestation will eventually go out of manifestation, and thus is impermanent.

So Advaita is about the realisation of the changelessness which underlies all change.

But until we realise that we are stuck in the manifestation and we have to deal with it as a reality.

Peace

Yuppers. That's one of the Vivekas used for self inquiry. That which changes and That which is unchanging. That line of inquiry eventually leads one to realize the only thing that does not change is Consciousness.

Body changes, mind changes, thoughts and emotions change, beliefs change, knowledge and memory change, the external world changes. That which they all appear in is the only constant and It's always exactly the same.

For me this is illustrated when we say something like:

I'm not the same person I was last year, 10 years ago, when I was 18, when I was a child.

I feel exactly the same as last year, 10 years ago, when I was 18, when I was a child.


Experience changes. That which experiences never changes. Which one are we, the changing or the Unchanging?

The beauty of it is it's all in our experience every single day and can be examined. It's the extraordinary masquerading as the ordinary, hiding in plain sight.
__________________
"Research your own experience; absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and add what is essentially your own." ~ Bruce Lee

"Of a certainty the man who can see all creatures in himself, himself in all creatures, knows no sorrow." ~ Upanishads

https://tinyurl.com/y2mxr4s2 My YouTube Channel

JASG

Last edited by JustASimpleGuy : 27-11-2020 at 07:57 AM.
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  #89  
Old 27-11-2020, 01:05 PM
A human Being A human Being is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Just to add to JASG's comments, there is the idea in Vedanta that that which is real does not change and that which changes is not real.

The nature of manifestation is change - anything which comes into manifestation will eventually go out of manifestation, and thus is impermanent.

So Advaita is about the realisation of the changelessness which underlies all change.

But until we realise that we are stuck in the manifestation and we have to deal with it as a reality.

Peace
Thanks for elaborating. I still have questions, but I think comprehension is beyond me at present so I'll keep them to myself for now, don't want to give myself a headache
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