Ego/I/self/Ahamkara is the Self that thinks he/she is separate from oneness....

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Can Atman/Brahman be anything other than itself?

The ego is the 'interface' between the external and internal 'worlds', and the ego is the 'end product' of a number of unconscious processes. Thoughts are also influenced by cognitive dissonance and cognitive behaviour, that's what 'drives' our thoughts. ...

No, Atman/Brahman cannot be anything other than itself, since Atman/Brahman is everything-the physical, material, and the nonphysical and nonmaterial. Brahman/atman is everything as energy and can neither be destroyed nor created, therefore this energy/brahman has no beginning and has no end.

Sure matter can be destroyed, but the energy and maybe even the atom that gives matter it's form and physical existence and life cannot be destroyed.

Even thoughts are brahman. The nature of thoughts for and in us humans is change, change to evolve spiritually, mentally and physically, or not to change. It is not about good or bad, it is about changing to evolve or to not change or evolve.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Even thoughts are brahman. The nature of thoughts for and in us humans is change, change to evolve spiritually, mentally and physically, or not to change. It is not about good or bad, it is about changing to evolve or to not change or evolve.

Even the thought of separation is Brahman. The problem is not what Brahman is or isn't, the problem is the human mind's inability to resolve what are often paradoxes. Or perceive something beyond linear time - which doesn't exist, technically, although we sill have a persistent perception that it does.

If Brahman is everything and separation exists then shouldn't separation also be Brahman? Or is there some things that are not Brahman after all? Or perhaps separation doesn't exist? Perhaps separation is a kara or 'invented thing' of the Aham? Brahman/not Brahman is the differentiated conscious of the ego and that's one of its 'roles' - to create separation because we can't see ourselves so well.

The consciousness of the self - the ego is an aspect of the self and not the self - has resolved the paradox/duality of the conscious and the unconscious into a unified being. Your self is the resolution of those two aspects of yourself within undifferentiated conscious. Within the conscious of self, both separation and Oneness are encompassed as not 'things' but aspects.

The consciousness of the self resolves the paradoxes/Dualities of separation and Oneness, Brahman and not-Brahman, physical and Spiritual......

It is the conscious of the ego that is Spiritual, not the conscious of the self. Oneness only exists in relation to 'not-One' and without separation and many, the word is meaningless. That's where ego/Ahamkara comes in and takes its place within Atman/Brahman/self. Resolving that paradox is Atman/Brahman/self.

There's an old saying - "If you want to understand Spirit you have to think like Spirit." Technically Spirit doesn't think but we have to change our thinking if we're going to understand.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Even the thought of separation is Brahman. The problem is not what Brahman is or isn't, the problem is the human mind's inability to resolve what are often paradoxes. Or perceive something beyond linear time - which doesn't exist, technically, although we sill have a persistent perception that it does....

The only thing that is not brahman is time. Time is a purely man made objective concept/idea, that we think is objective and true. We observe the earth rotate around the sun and we label that as time. We also observe and measure the distance of how long it takes to go from point A to point B and call that time.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

The only thing that is not brahman is time. Time is a purely man made objective concept/idea, that we think is objective and true. We observe the earth rotate around the sun and we label that as time. We also observe and measure the distance of how long it takes to go from point A to point B and call that time.

But if we are Atman and therefore Brahman, and we created time, by extension that should mean that time is also a creation of Brahman? And if time is not Brahman then Brahman is not Brahman any more because Brahman is not everything. Yes time is a perceptual construct but how different would your Spirituality be? What would happen to your Spiritual evolution, the realisation that you have evolved, or looking forward to evolving some more? I really don't need the answers to those questions and that wasn't the point of asking them, the point was to think about there being a good reason for the perception of time.

And while time is as human construct so is Spirituality. As far as I'm aware Spirit doesn't do beliefs.

You talked about cognitive behaviour, if Brahman is everything and time is not Brahman then what is the cognitive behaviour there? If time is not Brahman then it's separate and you said yourself separation doesn't exist?

A few years ago I spent a lot if time thinking about consciousness and it always came down to the same problem. My Guide probably got frustrated with be because I couldn't get past it. Then I heard the voice in the back of my head saying "It encompasses." That was the revelation.

Eternal is relative to time and without time there is no eternal. Eternal is beyond time or timeless, and if there is no time then there is nothing to be beyond or without. If there is no separation from Oneness there is no perception of Oneness even though it exists.

Ahamkara/ego says "There is 'this', there is 'that'. I choose "this'." And so the paradox is not created. Brahman says "There is 'this', there is 'that' and there is 'both'" and so encompasses, transcends Duality and resolves the paradox.

Ahamkara/ego is 'this' or 'that' - Brahman/not Brahman, 'this, not that'. Differentiated consciousness. Atman/self is the Atman/self because it is both the conscious and unconscious (and a couple of other things). Without one or the other Atman and therefore Brahman just wouldn't be the same. Unified, undifferentiated consciousness.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

But if we are Atman and therefore Brahman, and we created time, by extension that should mean that time is also a creation of Brahman? And if time is not Brahman then Brahman is not Brahman any more. And how long it takes to go from A to B IS time. Yes time is a perceptual construct but how different would your Spirituality be?...

Time is in the same exact category that negativity, (unconscious) programming/conditioning that causes destructive or negative cognitive behaviour is in. The human mind creates time, brahman does not create time directly. The human mind that creates time separates it's self from brahman. Time is real and exists artificially or falsely or unnaturally in the mind, just like negativity, (unconscious) programming/conditioning that causes destructive or negative cognitive behaviour is real and exists artificially or falsely or unnaturally in one's mind.

Relativity that separates like the relativity of time and the eternal is irrelevant. Relativity implies that something or someone is seperate from something or someone else but has a relation to that or other something or someone. Relativity is not that something or someone being (as) that something or someone. Humans and other life and everything else does not have a relation with brahman, they are brahman.

Yes, time is relative to the eternal. Time is the complete opposite of the eternal, like positivity is the complete opposite of negativity. The mind/thoughts creates/invents opposites artificially internally such as time, and the bad, negative and etc etc, when the eternal, good and positive are the only things that exists non artificially in existence/reality.

Most people's cognitive behaviour is based on time, more specifically the past. All unconscious programming/conditioning that causes destructive or negative cognitive behaviour took place in the past, this persons's past is the person's memory of what happened to him/her in the present moment at the time. The present moment back then in the past is the same present moment that is right here and right now, there is no difference.The present moment is the present moment, Most people do not think about this, including spiritual people.

Most people do not know what their unconscious programming/conditioning are in the present moment that is the cause of their destructive or negative cognitive behaviour in the present moment. Unconscious programming/conditioning is what creates negative/destructive thoughts, These negative/destructive thoughts is what create negative/destructive cognitive behaviour or actions. Physical time is not the issue, mental time is the issue. However, mental time begins with physical time, which is why I bring up physical time.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

The human mind that creates time separates it's self from brahman.

So separation does exist.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Relativity that separates like the relativity of time and the eternal is irrelevant.

The ego decides what is 'worthy' of being relevant and assigns status while cognitive dissonance doesn't like interference patterns being created that are contradictory to existing thought patterns.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Yes, time is relative to the eternal. Time is the complete opposite of the eternal, like positivity is the complete opposite of negativity. The mind/thoughts creates/invents opposites artificially internally such as time, and the bad, negative and etc etc, when the eternal, good and positive are the only things that exists non artificially in existence/reality.

You are conscious that time exists via your perceptions, the same perceptions that tell you that the chair you're sitting on, what you're typing on and that you yourself exists.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Most people's cognitive behaviour is based on time, more specifically the past. All unconscious programming/conditioning that causes destructive or negative cognitive behaviour took place in the past, this persons's past is the person's memory of what happened to him/her in the present moment at the time. The present moment back then in the past is the same present moment that is right here and right now, there is no difference.The present moment is the present moment, Most people do not think about this, including spiritual people.

Cognitive behaviour is not solely based on time, and while past events and our response to them via our perceptions can be a part of the cause of destructive cognitive behaviour, that same process can also cause constructive cognitive behaviour. It is not the past that we carry with us but our emotional response to our perceptions of what happened.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Most people do not know what their unconscious programming/conditioning are in the present moment that is the cause of their destructive or negative cognitive behaviour in the present moment. Unconscious programming/conditioning is what creates negative/destructive thoughts, These negative/destructive thoughts is what create negative/destructive cognitive behaviour or actions. Physical time is not the issue, mental time is the issue. However, mental time begins with physical time, which is why I bring up physical time.

Unconscious conditioning/programming as you call it is happening all the time - and thinking one is past/immune to it is a part of that conditioning. You can't get rid of your programming because it's a vital part of your perceptual reality and without it you probably would have one.

Time is not the issue, perception is.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

So separation does exist.
The ego decides what is 'worthy' of being relevant and assigns status while cognitive dissonance doesn't like interference patterns being created that are contradictory to existing thought patterns.
You are conscious that time exists via your perceptions, the same perceptions that tell you that the chair you're sitting on, what you're typing on and that you yourself exists.....

Separation does not exist on it's own. The individual whom does the separation mentally is the one that exists, thinks and believes, thus creates the separation or brings the separation into existence.

Unconscious conditioning/programming does happen all the time, but one can prevent it from happening to begin with, by being conscious and aware of his/her thoughts and beleifs.

What effects and causes a person's perception? Thoughts and beliefs effects and causes the perceptions one has.. Time is a belief and thoughts about time, like every other thoughts and beliefs.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Separation does not exist on it's own. The individual whom does the separation mentally is the one that exists, thinks and believes, thus creates the separation or brings the separation into existence.

Separation is in your consciousness so it exists, otherwise you would be conscious of it. You think and believe but you are less of the thinker and the believer than you think you are, and if there is no separation what are the reasons you don't know what I had for breakfast?

The concept of separation is no different to every other concept we have created - including the concept of being Spiritual if we hold it. What separates separation from the other concepts we defend? I'm not all that interested in whether it exists or not because we can't be conscious of what doesn't exist. If we are Atman and therefore Brahman then separation is of Brahman or we're just contradicting ourselves.

You use the word 'individual' yet you're saying there is no separation?

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Unconscious conditioning/programming does happen all the time, but one can prevent it from happening to begin with, by being conscious and aware of his/her thoughts and beleifs.

If you prevented your unconscious conditioning your bodily functions, including the beating of your heart and your breathing, would shut down. As you read these very words your conditioning is hard at work processing them.

Thinking that you are no longer a slave to your unconscious conditioning is conditioning itself and your ego seeking the status of complete autonomy. You can't stop it but you can be more aware of what is being processed - garbage in, garbage out.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

What effects and causes a person's perception? Thoughts and beliefs effects and causes the perceptions one has.. Time is a belief and thoughts about time, like every other thoughts and beliefs.

In part yes, but those thoughts and beliefs are created by the unconscious programming. Your sense of 'I am', whatever that may be, is also caused by the unconscious programming.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Separation is in your consciousness so it exists, otherwise you would be conscious of it. You think and believe but you are less of the thinker and the believer than you think you are, and if there is no separation what are the reasons you don't know what I had for breakfast?
The concept of separation is no different to every other concept we have created - including the concept of being Spiritual if we hold it....

Individuality does not create separation. One can be an individual and not think he/she is separate from brahman, just like one can be an individual who thinks he/she is separate from brahman.

Separation is in our conscious because we are conscious and aware of those separation thoughts and beliefs. If we do not have thoughts and beliefs about separation, we will not be conscious of separation.

My unconscious bodily functions, including the beating of my heart and breathing is not the cause of my negative and destructive conditioning/programming and behaviour. My unconscious bodily functions, including the beating of my heart and breathing are a positive thing as they keep me alive.

I never said nor implied that I am no longer a slave to my unconscious conditioning, you are falsely projecting that onto me. I am in constant battle with my negative and destructive unconscious conditioning.

[Miss Hepburn]

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