From the Foundation to the Apex

Originally Posted by sky123

You can imagine anything you want , there or not there try it for yourself

i am not into the imagination. experience of reality is better for me. seeing/experiencing things as they are before the imagination takes things into delusion. buddha taught the same thing i see

From eating meat arrogance is born, from arrogance erroneous imaginations issue, and from imagination is born greed; and for this reason refrain from eating meat. Gautama Buddha

Man's troubles are rooted in extreme attention to senses, thoughts, and imagination. Attention should be focused internally to experience a quiet body and a calm mind. Gautama Buddha

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by sky123

Pointing something out is not insisting

yes but did seem to find it of import to point that out

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by sentient

Well, you do know the Buddhist teaching about impermanence, and how meditation practices can also be used to try and create a permanent state of equanimity as a refuge from suffering.

You have done your mindfulness practice – no?

If you did – at which point did you realize it wasn’t the all and end all of meditational practices?

And if you did see it as not being the all and end all of practices, how could you then insist everyone should follow your train of thought about your mindfulness process – as if it was the whole truth?

Not saying mindfulness isn’t a good practice.

*

Are you aware when you read something written by another and your in conflict over it, that it’s an opportunity, for you to reflect and understand why your in conflict.

And so...

My being, my mind has no conflict arising. I’ve been engaged as a continuum of shared wisdom and able to listen to the truth as it’s been conveyed as a whole, from start to ‘now’. I have no disagreement in me regardless of what truth I’m sharing or observing.



I can do that because I’m not contained by anything outside myself. Which of course reflects my inner world.

When you take one word out of a whole context of shared wisdom from start to this point and say it’s projected as ‘an insistence of the whole truth’, all that says in me is your focused outwardly and not what it means for you in this instance where your reactivity is seeking outward gain. It’s getting your attention for yourself.


I am not out to prove or protect myself that’s our differences in this issue.

Permanent state you say?

Yes I understand myself and notice myself through all those streams you’ve mentioned.

I’m being the meditation, the Mindfulness, the equanimity. I’m aware when I’m not. I tend to myself to recentre into what I’m aware and know myself as.

Gems posts convey to me a deep awareness and understanding of the practice as himself. I’m aware of the foundation and apex as myself. I’m aware of the interconnected relationship buddhism is as myself.

I may not have all the teachings as perfect knowledge in perfect order and perfect relating. It’s not my thang. I’m more interested in being it as myself.

I certainly, as an experiencer, understand the guts of it all the same. The teaching principles and practice allign to my process in many ways of my own clarity and awareness as an experiencer.

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

yes but did seem to find it of import to point that out

very true! and if one disagrees with what is pointed out, them who thus pointed gets angry! so was it a mere pointing or be it insisting? for if it was merely pointing, what beith there to get angry about? i say to you of this village thus, them that claimith to be merely pointing have hidden their truith intentions, for they are insisting, wolves in sheep clothing!

i channeled William Shakespeare

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sentient

A good job for mindfulness that is.
To go beyond those, “advise – insist” words and observe.
To go beyond good and ill-will (of the perceived 'audience') and/or whether we are even ‘right’ or not.

With mindfulness meditation, we may gain back our ‘free and independent will’ (from our obsessive, compulsive patterns, disturbing emotions, whatnot), but what then … what do we do with this 'free and independent will'?

*

I don't think there is anything specific to do - I guess they'd say something like chop wood carry water - but at least compulsions wouldn't be controlling you, and with attention in the present you'd do everything more consciously and deliberately.

The way I see it, it isn't really right or wrong, or agree and disagree, or at least that sort of thing is a minute part of what goes on. Usually we'd find our tendencies for agreement and disagreement are like attempts to manufacture knowledge or a desires to be right, and you can contrast a difference by comparing to normal conversations with friends where you talk about something without having any right/wrong structure to it. It's more like you feel the breath: 'feels like this' without a secondary agreement/disagreement right/wrong going on.

In the thread you will see the tendency toward disagreement play out and how it escalates agitations through the will to incite reactions, but I'm not saying to ought to be another way. Just suggesting more generally that's the kind of thing we start to notice of ourselves in meditation.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

"there is complete absence of any actual disagreement" one can be aware of that or not

I just don't see anything in the argument that I disagree with. I am aware that disagreement is there, but I can't see what it is in regards to. It seems to be making an issue of asides and becoming distracted by them, but as I say, that's typically how meditation plays out - except in meditation there is a deliberation to 'come back' each time one notices they have wandered away.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

very true! and if one disagrees with what is pointed out, them who thus pointed gets angry! so was it a mere pointing or be it insisting? for if it was merely pointing, what beith there to get angry about? i say to you of this village thus, them that claimith to be merely pointing have hidden their truith intentions, for they are insisting, wolves in sheep clothing!

i channeled William Shakespeare

But pointing out is more that a truth statement. Anyone can can make a claim, but can they provide a rationale that enables other to discern merit for themselves, or, where one does provide rationale, indicate the inconsistency, contradiction or fault with a premise? Usually not. Usually we find disagreement fast becomes inane as agitations escalate, but if one tries sitting still and feeling breath for one hour, just see what the last 10 minutes are like. Generally speaking, it's more or less that same thing. We like to generate agitated mind-states and thrive on aversions and desire, which is basically what we become conscious of and resolve via meditation.

rather than ignore our thoughts, we assert them as harbingers of truths.

[sky]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

yes but did seem to find it of import to point that out

That is not ' Insisting '

[sky]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

very true! and if one disagrees with what is pointed out, them who thus pointed gets angry! so was it a mere pointing or be it insisting? for if it was merely pointing, what beith there to get angry about? i say to you of this village thus, them that claimith to be merely pointing have hidden their truith intentions, for they are insisting, wolves in sheep clothing!

i channeled William Shakespeare

I wonder who is the one getting angry that you speak about....