Converting sleep into meditation

[Uma]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Thanks Uma & Still_Waters. We know the theory. Swami Lakshmanjoo, possibly one of the greatest exponents of Kashmir Shaivism also says the same.

Yes Kashmir Shaivism gives the same basic teachings.

[iamthat]

Over the years I have had little success in converting sleep to meditation but there have been many times when I have converted meditation to sleep!

Peace

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Over the years I have had little success in converting sleep to meditation but there have been many times when I have converted meditation to sleep!

Peace

Conventionally speaking, yes, during our waking state we choose to shift into quietude, embracing inner silence and melding with the vast, vibrant void as our meditation or maybe by employing any other method suited to us. However, sleep meditation essentially is an energisation infused by intent and receptivity, where we invite the magnetic energy to fill us even in sleep, sometimes, more so in sleep.

Our inbuilt resistance is less in sleep state. I have almost always woken from sleep in the middle of the night (more or less every other day) with body fully electrified with the divine energy, which then can be carried forward in a resistanceless, celebratory mode of delight, awake and lying down in bed. It may last hours even.

It’s something like being lifted on our dad’s shoulders for a better view of the street play underway!

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 10 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Uma

What Guruji is saying is not to make the goal staying awake during the dream state, but rather to be so invested in one's inner being (soul being awareness) that one is always in witness mode
What you're speaking about I have tried deliberately also (staying awake during dreams) in the past but got a very poor night's sleep out of it.

In conscious sleep, as I have practiced it, "one is always in witness mode" (to use your terminology) and one is very well rested even after being absorbed in it for an entire night.

When I was at the Khumba Mela in Haridwar (1998), there was a yogi there who reportedly had not slept in the traditional supine position for years. (I personally observed this during the month that I was at the Khumba.) When I asked him how he did that, he paused for a long while before responding simply with two words ("Chetan Nidra" - conscious sleep) but his communication in the silence was a response more powerful than the actual words spoken. I understood. A psychiatrist colleague of mine once asked me if I had ever met the yogis who "never sleep". He said that my explanation was the only one he had heard that made any sense from a medical perspective.

You've obviously approached this practice differently than I have.

[Uma]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QUOTE 10 EXCERPT:
In conscious sleep, as I have practiced it, "one is always in witness mode" (to use your terminology) and one is very well rested even after being absorbed in it for an entire night.

"Witness mode" can be on many levels. We can observe from an ordinary consciousness. "I see the bird on the branch." From a mental level, "I see the aura of that bird." Or on a consciousness level, "The Divine in me sees the Divine in the bird."

The lucid dreaming I've experienced was of the first and second kind, so I was just witnessing (or observing) from an ordinary consciousness, hence I didn't get a good night's sleep because my mind was too active. This is the REM state in sleep when the mind is just dumping out its subconscious stuff.

We get the best sleep in deep dreamless sleep. That is said to be a space of bliss but it's unconscious (can't be seen except by those who live in the turyia space).

Perhaps a good dream, one that's positive and uplifting, can energise us in other ways so that when we wake up from that we feel really vital.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

When I was at the Khumba Mela in Haridwar (1998), there was a yogi there who reportedly had not slept in the traditional supine position for years. (I personally observed this during the month that I was at the Khumba.) When I asked him how he did that, he paused for a long while before responding simply with two words ("Chetan Nidra" - conscious sleep) but his communication in the silence was a response more powerful than the actual words spoken. I understood.

Interesting. I can't know what the state of that yogi was and I'm not familiar with "Chetan Nidra", but to be able to be conscious in sleep and still get a good night's rest would require some deeper level of witnessing than the ordinary kind.

My practice, since you mention it, is to focus on being more awake in the waking world, and let the other phenomena look after itself. For example when I practiced using mantra for protection during the daylight hours, I noticed that I had a nightmare and I automatically used mantra to make this dream situation disappear. I look at my behaviour in dreams as a confirmation that the sadhana (spiritual practice) I am doing during the day is sinking into my subconscious, which is one of my goals. So that's a good sign, and that's how I use dreams these days.

I'm sure psychiatry has its own point of view about these things. Mine comes from the view of ancient science, the mysticism, that we are not a product of the brain and its chemistry but of consciousness and its energy.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

In conscious sleep, as I have practiced it, "one is always in witness mode" (to use your terminology) and one is very well rested even after being absorbed in it for an entire night.
... responding simply with two words ("Chetan Nidra" - conscious sleep) but his communication in the silence was a response more powerful than the actual words spoken. I understood. ...

Could you point to a book, or a link that you think that describes best "Chetan Nidra" - conscious sleep? Thanks.

A quick search yielded "Yoga Nidra" by Swami Satyananda Saraswati

[Justin Passing]

This is all quite interesting to me. Sleeping is one of my primary "tools" but that's because it works for me. I'm often conscious while dreaming, sometimes lucid, and nearly always in a meditative state. But I do get a good night's rest. Perhaps that's because I typically refuse to control these things. I don't "try" to do anything. I may want something, or even make suggestions, but I never try to force certain things to happen. That's just not how I do things. I do what I'm told, but I don't tell myself what to do.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 15 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Uma

My practice, since you mention it, is to focus on being more awake in the waking world, and let the other phenomena look after itself. For example when I practiced using mantra for protection during the daylight hours, I noticed that I had a nightmare and I automatically used mantra to make this dream situation disappear.
I'm sure psychiatry has its own point of view about these things. Mine comes from the view of ancient science, the mysticism, that we are not a product of the brain and its chemistry but of consciousness and its energy.

Like yourself, mantra spontaneously arises for protection during the daylight hours. In 1986, I was sandwiched in the middle of a 3-car traffic accident in which my car was almost completely crushed. As it was happening, I went into mantra mode and, although it's illogical, I felt completely safe. Although people in the other two cars were carried out on stretchers, I was completely injury-free and even had normal blood pressure and a pulse. I came out of that "daylight nightmare" quite well as I was indeed "protected".

As for the psychiatrist colleague I mentioned, he had spiritual depth and fully understood that we are not a product of the brain and its consciousness. My explanation of the yogi who never sleeps did not contradict anything in medical science .. but went beyond it.

I also discussed with my psychiatrist the Indian sage who appeared to me and a colleague literally out of thin air in an open field. When we mentioned that to my spiritual mentor, who was sitting with other sages, no one was surprised as we were told that "He does this from time to time. Everyone knows that." My dialogue with the psychiatrist on this particular incident was particularly interesting.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by inavalan

Could you point to a book, or a link that you think that describes best "Chetan Nidra" - conscious sleep? Thanks.
A quick search yielded "Yoga Nidra" by Swami Satyananda Saraswati

I can't point to a book that describes "Chetan Nidra" (conscious sleep) in great detail. The actual methodology was communicated to me by sages in one-on-one communications.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 17 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Justin Passing

I'm often conscious while dreaming, sometimes lucid, and nearly always in a meditative state. But I do get a good night's rest. Perhaps that's because I typically refuse to control these things.

That's a very good point about how to get a good night's rest even while remaining "conscious while dreaming".