Are there fully enlightened buddhist teachers alive ?

[Redchic12]

JustBe…….good point.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I would say no because I think to be enlightened we stop being a person and if you are not a person no one is there to be enlightened.

How do you stop being a 'Person' ?

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by sky

How do you stop being a 'Person' ?

You left out the last part of the quote I think.

"if you are not a person no one is there to be enlightened"

You are the person in other words. You can't stop yourself. But then the opposite of doing is not not doing as both involves a doer. No try or not try as was borrowed by "Yoda" from Buddhism or something like that I'm too lazy to look up the quote lol. There is an opposite though one just has to find or be it. The opposite of trying is not not trying. Doer in both. The one who tries or doesn't try. It's not a matter of "giving up" or "letting go " either as again both imagine a self as a doer. It's a matter of not having a self at all but of course one becomes more the self this way.

It's like end all seeking, no goals and all the rest of that type of teachings. Selfless, no self interest..(which is the highest self interest) but then what "self" is known or referred to? It's in every mystic's teachings I think. All realized souls. In all religions then as some have found it in all I think. Everyone can find it. But maybe it takes some 5000 years. It must be found if one wants to escape the cycle of rebirth. If we want to be a person, the universe gives us a physical body I think. To be person-less in a body, not easy I think! But then it takes no method or effort or practice to just be person-less. The person is an overlay to what is or reality anyway. Always present but not experienced, reality I think. Mental forms are experienced physically with the help of hormones. So delusional lives.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Maisy

You left out the last part of the quote I think.

Reading The Buddha's doctrine of Anatta - Not-self should help you.

[Maisy]

A small sentence planted in the brain, and repeated habitually, can stop all spiritual progress I think.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Maisy

A small sentence planted in the brain, and repeated habitually, can stop all spiritual progress I think.

i can agree with that. I only make progress when I'm pushing out of the comfort zone but I don't see too many people empathizing with that kind of idea, much easier just to rest into what one already wants to do than learn something new....

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by sky

Reading The Buddha's doctrine of Anatta - Not-self should help you.

I think at some point books are pointless. I think I have passed that point. I know all I would want to know from books about that subject. I would add knowledge can be pointless as well. Oh in fact, knowledge can stick one in delusion I think. That's my experience anyway. Why would one look in a book for something "spiritual" if one is not a person and is not seeking anything? I wonder if one could say knowledge and understanding are different. Hmmmm I think so as I think knowledge uses words usually and understanding is there even if words are not. But then knowledge is maybe the same thing as understanding, depends on the context I guess or how one wants to apply and use those words.

Not self seems like a baby step to me. If one does not know what is not self, well actually, few want to even think about such ideas or beliefs. Well maybe it's common in Buddhist countries. I think pretty much everything on earth is not self. If one is defining self as the true self I think. (True self is energy I think and most of here is physical or material.) But then true self is experiencing not self. Then the two are one for an incarnation. Maybe the best one can hope for is transcendence or non-identification with what is not self. But then that realization and experience is pretty nice as small of a step it is. And maybe it frees one from rebirth in physical form.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

I don't see too many people empathizing with that kind of idea,

I don't know anyone in real life that is into this stuff lol. Their faces go blank if I bring it up. But for some, I think it's why they are here. To be free from ego. Or at least chip away at it. To make some progress and not need incarnations on this earth to make progress.

[cryoldman]

Hi Smilingsun,

I believe it's boiled down to one thing: how could we know if we are not one of those enlightened Buddhist teachers? A kid never knows how an adult really feels or thinks, except after he's grown up and become one of them, right?
So, what is Buddhist enlightenment, in your opinion (s)? And we might continue from that.
As for anatta or there is no self, it's the central Buddhist concept that there is no such thing as atta (self). Please be careful here; they are just words (and some translation into English). Anatta literally means there's is no atman (the true or eternal self). Another example is the word "dukkha", its translation is only "suffering, dissatisfaction" when it also means things cannot stand still but forever change (I kind of know this Pali word so well). I got dukkha after I've sat for too long, so I have to stand up. etc.
Again, just words. If we don't know Sanskrit or Pali, how could we tell what's what?
That said, we can, how to say it, anticipate some of it? As for me (I'm just a child, not an adult in this aspect), I could only think that enlightenment is about dealing with your "self" or ego. Less and less ego paves the way to enlightenment?
But how (as someone here already pointed out)? How can we be without selves?
What are the right/useful techniques to attain that?
We've heard a lot about mindfulness that observing our thoughts, feelings, and minds. Just observe, but don't fight them. But how? Or thoughts and mindfulness are one and the same, are they not? How can the bad/negative thoughts that I am observing not affect my mindfulness? And vice versa? It's all about pragmatics, right?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I think at some point books are pointless. I think I have passed that point

At some point, but they do help when your going down the wrong path.
Grasping the Dharma wrongly is like grabbing a snake by the wrong end. “Their wrong grasp of the Dharma will lead to their long-term harm & suffering.” -The Buddha.