Meditation, some answers

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

I have a problem with superlative words like 'nothing else.'

That is because you are not 100% sure what your heart is telling you but i am because of some valid reasons. Secondly, i do not know about you but being diplomatically correct is not my objective here whether others like it or not.

Besides that, my long experiences have convinced me that spiritualty is just like science and governed by strict laws and regulations without any sidestepping or exceptions. Many people do not like or believe it when i put it that way but i cannot help it. I do not agree when people say that every journey is different because it cannot. Everyone has to go through the same route but yes, the understanding/interpretations of the same journey may be different for different people.

To me, it is more like the analogy of an elephant and four blind persons where every person touches different parts of the elephant's body and describes it accordingly. But that is not going to change the reality of elephant.

And, of course, i may still be one of those four blind persons but the elephant is elephant and always will be.

with love,
sanjay

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

I have a problem with superlative words like 'nothing else.' This should be no surprise to many here.

I'm like Zinnat as I claim 'just one', but I'm talking about in something in the balance is really delicate and hard to notice.

[pixiedust]

Originally Posted by zinnat

At least Patanjali is agreeing with me.

We need a larger room to make way for this head.

[pixiedust]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

you have claimed mediation builds concentration but isn't that the opposite of quieting the mind?

In Buddhism, they go together.

Ajahn Chah explained it like picking up a stick. One side is samadhi (concentration, stability). The other side is insight, clear seeing.

Both support each other.

Everyone's meditation can be slightly different but meditation that leads to freedom, compassion, joy is the way of release, and some call the way of wisdom.

[pixiedust]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Having said that, however, Pantanjali's Yoga Sutras most assuredly have concentration (Dharana - limb 6 of Asthanga Yoga) as a preliminary to meditation (Dhyana - limb 7).

Yes, a preliminary.

Anyone who thinks it's the only way, well

[pixiedust]

Originally Posted by zinnat

in the initial phase, meditation cannot give results without agitating the mind to its limits.

I agree - we need to be able to sustain the rockiness of the mind. Else, meditation is also not being utilized to its maximum.

However, my experience and belief both say that after the rockiness, the mind naturally moves to peace and quietude.

This is the wisdom of the Ancients.

[sky]

Originally Posted by pixiedust

Anyone who thinks it's the only way, well

' it is not proper for a wise man who preserves truth to come to the definite conclusion ' Only this is true, anything else is wrong '.
The Buddha. MN 95

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 1134 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

A concentrated mind can focus where it chooses and isn't easily distracted. It can also choose to not focus on anything.

That is a very insightful post as I had many discussions with my teacher on the second sutra in Pantanjali's Yoga Sutras. I finally became convinced that yoga is PERFECT CONTROL over the modifications of the mind. This means that one can still the mind at will or activate the mind at will. If I am not mistaken, that is what you are saying in the above post.

Initially, I cringed at the word "control" but one does not cringe when one talks about controlling one's car while driving. That is my current understanding regarding yoga after long and somewhat animated discussions with my teacher.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 1143 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by zinnat

... in the initial phase, meditation cannot give results without agitating the mind to its limits. This may sound strange to some but it is true.

In my formative years, I was initially surprised at how much agitation one can experience in the beginning stages of meditation ... as the subconscious/unconscious comes into consciousness and some of it is quite shocking.

My teacher often used the analogy of pouring water into a dirty inkwell. Purification does not happen immediately, but the residual ink rises to the surface creating an agitated mess initially ... before the ink well is finally clean.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 1149 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by zinnat

You immediately understood what i meant by that post only because that NDE gave you first hand experience of the issue. NDE kind of experience can also be triggered by the meditation and unlike NDE it can be controlled.

In retrospect, my NDE of many many years ago was truly a blessing in disguise as I can address certain subjects with absolute certainty based on that first hand experience.

In addition, as you pointed out, an "NDE kind of experience can also be triggered by the meditation and, unlike NDE, it can be controlled".