Time Space and Reality

[Rawnrr]

Just something to ponder

Einstein said that time and space were connected as time/space. Which only makes sense because as soon as you create "dimension" (space), you have individual separate points, where one point is "here", and another point is "not here", and to bridge the distance between would require an experience of time. Without dimensionality there would be no separate points, all things would be in one space and one time (quantum).

Our physical world is therefore built out of this space/time manifestation, because that is how we experience our daily lives. We exist in space and time.

Einstein also pointed out that time is relative to the experience ( “Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.”). If this is true, then what does that make of space/dimensionality/the physical world?
If time is relative to individual experience then all of physical reality is also relative to individual/personal experience.

Many people say "I refuse to believe something unless I experience it myself". This argument could therefore be even more fundamentally true if reality is in fact simply personal experience.

So where does that leave "the real world", the place of physical reality that we all seem to share?
Is it a solid concrete, physical place?.... Or just a conjoined hub were our individual experiences interact with each other?
Is physical reality therefore then much more fluid than we previously thought?
Is it possible that it is all simply a trick of the mind?.....a mind whose reality is based outside space/time, complete whole and unified that is just playing at having separate individual experiences?

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Rawnrr

Many people say "I refuse to believe something unless I experience it myself". This argument could therefore be even more fundamentally true if reality is in fact simply personal experience.

That's an argument that comes up all the time on spiritual discussion boards. But it's really a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the experiential wisdom path. I don't ponder Einstein and wonder about intellectual theories pertaining to the nature of reality. I interact with the world and with what is there. I view and observe and experience.

It's a hard thing for many people to understand because we're so used to examining life intellectually. Person IP (intellectual pontification) looks up into the night sky and sees points of light, and wonders how planets are made, and thinks about how big the universe actually is, and ponders what could have created all of it.

Person EW (experiential wisdom) looks up into the night sky and sees points of light, and experiences it.

That's the difference.

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Rawnrr: Is it possible that it is all simply a trick of the mind?.....a mind whose reality is based outside space/time, complete whole and unified that is just playing at having separate individual experiences?

precisely
.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E

precisely
.

Is reality a trick of the mind? Do stars really exist? Who created all this... was it God?
Intellectual inquires and theories.

I am standing on my lawn, looking into the night sky, and can see points of light we call stars. As for God... whoops nope, get out of here you! My mind just went intellectual-rogue on me, phew!
Experiential wisdom.

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Originally Posted by Baile

Is reality a trick of the mind? Do stars really exist? Who created all this... was it God?
Intellectual inquires and theories.

I am standing on my lawn, looking into the night sky, and can see points of light we call stars. As for God... whoops nope, get out of here you! My mind just went intellectual-rogue on me, phew!
Experiential wisdom.

why draw distinctions in a single phenomena?
the purpose of division is contrary to the purpose of unity.
(or is it?)

[Rawnrr]

Originally Posted by Baile

I am standing on my lawn, looking into the night sky, and can see points of light we call stars. As for God... whoops nope, get out of here you! My mind just went intellectual-rogue on me, phew!
Experiential wisdom.

Do you see the same stars as the person next to you?
If you do, do you see them in the same way?
Maybe the one you see as red in your experience would be experienced as what you would call green by the other person because of the differences in how your individual eyes interpret colours.
Perhaps they also see the spirit of their dead grandmother sitting with you both watching the stars....simply because they are more open to seeing spirits, and that is the reality of their experience.

:)

[Rawnrr]

There is a point for simply acknowledging experience.....but we were also given intellect, so it would be a shame not to use it the best we can.

:)

[Baile]

Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E

why draw distinctions in a single phenomena?
the purpose of division is contrary to the purpose of unity.
(or is it?)

Intellectual is division and separation relationship. Experiential is unity relationship.

I see stars and ask: "Do stars actually exist?"
I experience stars as separate from me.

I see stars, and I feel and explore that experience within me.
I experience stars as part of me.

Intellectual inquires are fine, they're what they are. But intellectual theories about life are not "the counter-argument" to those who endeavor to relate to life from an experiential perspective. Two completely different paths, like apples and oranges. One person ponders if apples and oranges actually exist. The other person eats the apples and oranges because that's what they're there for.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Rawnrr

There is a point for simply acknowledging experience.....but we were also given intellect, so it would be a shame not to use it the best we can.

:)

Ah, I was hoping you'd ask! Intellect is good, it's fine, and your points are all valid, great thread in fact. But the experiential wisdom path is not about processing via the intellect. It's about inner reflection leading to intuitive understanding.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Rawnrr

Do you see the same stars as the person next to you?
If you do, do you see them in the same way?
Maybe the one you see as red in your experience would be experienced as what you would call green by the other person because of the differences in how your individual eyes interpret colours.
Perhaps they also see the spirit of their dead grandmother sitting with you both watching the stars....simply because they are more open to seeing spirits, and that is the reality of their experience.

:)

All interesting questions! All things I think about from time to time.

But this is not the experiential wisdom path, that is my simple explanation and message to you after reading your "I refuse to believe something unless I experience it myself" comment in your first post.

I don't even believe in or talk about God anymore. It came to me a few years back how ingrained our intellectual assumptions actually are. Our thought projections become our dogma. We never question "God" because we've been brought up believing that "something" had to have created all this, right? So we blithely keep hanging onto Pisces Age belief doctrine that, well, it must have been "The Almighty" or "The Great Mind" who created it. But it's all just theorizing and intellectualizing.

Well how about this for a change of pace? What if... it just all happened by accident! But no, we can't think that because that makes us ungrateful humans and bad people and sinners (more dogma as a result of intellectualizing).

We are fettered to the cement blocks of our own thought projections. That's why I stay away from intellectual theorizing for the most part, except when I'm looking to have a bit of fun with bouncing ideas around.