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19-06-2020, 03:52 PM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
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The Madness of Nonduality.
For the nonduality concept to have an impact (resonance), the madness of rejecting the evidence of our own eyes, that the many separate things are in reality merely a manifestation of difference where there is no difference whatsoever, can surprisingly result in the end of the search without any further understanding or experience.
Niz said such an event could be fast (Boom) or slow (lots of practise) and that either way was OK, that one was no better than the other. He seemed to suggest one or the other in discussion with seekers depending on how he saw the character of each
Last edited by Iamit : 19-06-2020 at 08:32 PM.
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21-06-2020, 08:27 AM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
For the nonduality concept to have an impact (resonance), the madness of rejecting the evidence of our own eyes, that the many separate things are in reality merely a manifestation of difference where there is no difference whatsoever, can surprisingly result in the end of the search without any further understanding or experience.
Niz said such an event could be fast (Boom) or slow (lots of practise) and that either way was OK, that one was no better than the other. He seemed to suggest one or the other in discussion with seekers depending on how he saw the character of each
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Niz tried to trigger the fast approach by stating that the seeker was already what was sought (The Supreme). He used this approach with a seeker who had done lots of practise but was in complete despair about progress. He said the despair placed the seeker in a most advantageous position to see clearly that he was already the Supreme.
One could surmise that Niz felt that for some seekers reaching despair with practise was the goal of practise, so far from being unnessary, was an essential part of the process for some to reach a state of despair.
No doubt some seekers are undisiplined types who despair at the very thought of practise without even embarking. Such characters would presumably be ripe for the fast approach and are likely to be attracted to (resonate with) those approaches which assert that one is already the Supreme.
Last edited by Iamit : 21-06-2020 at 09:35 AM.
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21-06-2020, 08:48 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Delhi, India
Posts: 11,096
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***
We have on the one hand, a reasoned concept of non-duality and on the other, actuality of so knowing, as an unwavering wisdom, breathed moment to moment.
What seems valid, for me at least, is to recognise duality to begin with, being what it is, then, experientially shift to interconnectivity in contemplation & meditation recognising oneness and then to singularity when we vaporise in the bliss of Samadhi. On a personal note, having so experienced all stages, the awareness is as yet flickering. Unstable.
There is no scope in the recognition of what is or appears to be as is, for lower mind or thought to intervene. Brutal honesty alone prevails. Here & now, in an unending unbroken continuum, either we are in the light or we aren’t. In lived reality, not in imagination of thought.
Now, if there is a flash of recognition of singularity, my submission is not to to negate such a possibility but rather to postulate that such an ‘enlightenment’ is the exception rather than the rule. Possibly arduous past life learning may have ripened consciousness for such a blossoming.
For others, me included, it appears to be a long walk home. We may be wrong, however!
***
__________________
The Self has no attribute
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21-06-2020, 09:01 AM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
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We have on the one hand, a reasoned concept of non-duality and on the other, actuality of so knowing, as an unwavering wisdom, breathed moment to moment.
What seems valid, for me at least, is to recognise duality to begin with, being what it is, then, experientially shift to interconnectivity in contemplation & meditation recognising oneness and then to singularity when we vaporise in the bliss of Samadhi. On a personal note, having so experienced all stages, the awareness is as yet flickering. Unstable.
There is no scope in the recognition of what is or appears to be as is, for lower mind or thought to intervene. Brutal honesty alone prevails. Here & now, in an unending unbroken continuum, either we are in the light or we aren’t. In lived reality, not in imagination of thought.
Now, if there is a flash of recognition of singularity, my submission is not to to negate such a possibility but rather to postulate that such an ‘enlightenment’ is the exception rather than the rule. Possibly arduous past life learning may have ripened consciousness for such a blossoming.
For others, me included, it appears to be a long walk home. We may be wrong, however!
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Yes it seems clear that for you the fast approach is not attractive and you are not in a position of despair with your practise. According to Niz despair only seems to be the purpose of practise for some and not all. Presumably practise actually works for some without despair.
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21-06-2020, 09:11 AM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
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We have on the one hand, a reasoned concept of non-duality and on the other, actuality of so knowing, as an unwavering wisdom, breathed moment to moment.
What seems valid, for me at least, is to recognise duality to begin with, being what it is, then, experientially shift to interconnectivity in contemplation & meditation recognising oneness and then to singularity when we vaporise in the bliss of Samadhi. On a personal note, having so experienced all stages, the awareness is as yet flickering. Unstable.
There is no scope in the recognition of what is or appears to be as is, for lower mind or thought to intervene. Brutal honesty alone prevails. Here & now, in an unending unbroken continuum, either we are in the light or we aren’t. In lived reality, not in imagination of thought.
Now, if there is a flash of recognition of singularity, my submission is not to to negate such a possibility but rather to postulate that such an ‘enlightenment’ is the exception rather than the rule. Possibly arduous past life learning may have ripened consciousness for such a blossoming.
For others, me included, it appears to be a long walk home. We may be wrong, however!
***
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On the contrary, when using the direct approach (fast), Niz urged a direct knowing that one was already the Supreme. He was keen that the seeker believed him:)
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26-06-2020, 03:26 PM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Arizona, U.S.A
Posts: 3,454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
... and then to singularity when we vaporise in the bliss of Samadhi.
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Happy soul-suiciding. My understanding of the 'problem' with this is the inevitiability of 'resurrection' (i.e. of one's soul re-cohering) into relationality with others Being. Permanence (of anything!) is an 'illusion' in my view. My philosophy jibes with wahst's said in the Gita, I think: "There was never a time when I*was not, nor thou, nor these princes were not; there will never be a time when we shall cease to be. ... That which is not, shall never be; that which is, shall never cease to be. To the wise, these truths are self-evident."
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21-06-2020, 10:40 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Delhi, India
Posts: 11,096
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Who is the non-existent seeker ...
Who is the doer who despairs ...
Who is the believer or non-believer ...
Who is the practicer ...
There is no one here, save an experiencer
(not a koan)
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__________________
The Self has no attribute
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21-06-2020, 11:35 AM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
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Who is the non-existent seeker ...
Who is the doer who despairs ...
Who is the believer or non-believer ...
Who is the practicer ...
There is no one here, save an experiencer
(not a koan)
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The solution is always the same from a nondual perspective, Oneness as the only reality appearing as all, paricularly the things you regard as problematic. Include them as Oneness and your problem of practising them away disappears.
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24-06-2020, 02:42 PM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,025
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You two are on the cusp of coming to terms of one of the greatest limitations / handcuffs of the mental approach. Eventually . . . after innumerable lifetimes . . . there is the slow realization that the mind . . . through its incessant and compelling labels, definitions, analysis . . . demands to resolve all into an either / or understanding.
There are very few “things” / concepts / principles that are either all one way or the other.
Doing so negates one of the primary and fundamental approaches to the understanding of LIFE. This approach is adequately known . . . somewhat popular . . . and lightly promoted through the eons . . . but is overlooked and set aside for the mental demand to choose a side and move along.
I’m not going to reveal what this principle is. It is rarely discussed on this forum board . . . or any other that I have observed. The principle can be discovered and understood quite easily . . . but the mind is incessant in its process . . . and most fall back to the either / or. It is more a matter of mind protecting the either / or approach than to allow a greater principle to gain recognition in the individual.
The adventure . . . as always . . . continues.
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24-06-2020, 03:25 PM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Delhi, India
Posts: 11,096
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@ zorkchop ... ah! The plot thickens! We got to watch the full movie to know who dun it! And you aren’t saying!
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__________________
The Self has no attribute
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