Problem of suffering.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

Our thoughts cause most of our suffering.

So true and this is everyone. But keep in mind other peoples thoughts cause suffering on others. It is true each person cause their own suffering but another person may cause another's suffering. All thoughts are intention. Many times people point to it if we listen. Would you also not include other people? Not only is it one person but all persons.

[sky]

Is suffering a problem or do we make it a problem by the way we deal with it ? It's obviously a natural part of life..... imo.

For some suffering provides the impetus for seeking God. Does anyone actually pray for a continuing abundant life ?
People seek God from a place of poverty(don’t read this as simply material).

[Gem]

It starts when we assume a God with divine will-power, which leads us to attempting to reconcile the ethic of of His motive. Why does He let my baby die and all the rest, as if that was His intention and he must have a good reason. We are more or less forced into this mode of thinking because if there's no reason that makes sense, then the world is meaningless, and without reason there's only chaos.

The Buddhists don't have a God that makes things happen, but they, too, have a philosophical basis for rhyme and reason, which is fundamentally the same since reason in any cosmological paradigm is based on cause and effect. Hence, the Buddhists borrowed kamma from the larger Hindu script and re-defined it as volition or the exertion of will. It basically means if you act upon the world it also acts upon you. This means suffering is closely related not to God's (or the Devil's), but your own volition.

So we have to look at the motive, and this can be categorised into opposites: goodwill and ill-will. We generate both of these kinds of volition. As kamma would have it, goodwill results in positive outcomes and ill-will negative. Of course we know in communities where people are generally unkind and malicious a lot if harm is done, and the opposite is true where goodwill predominates.

So where does it start? What is the genesis of the exertion of will? This is not discovered by stories about a willful God. It is discovered by being aware about yourself. If one sees in themselves the process by which volition is incited, they will understand how suffering is caused and why that's a problem.

It no longer becomes a problem of good and evil and just desert, but one of insightful knowing or ignorance. That is the is the context in which Christ supposedly said, "Forgive them for they know not what they do".

Instead of marveling at the iconic figure of Christ, the lesson is to realise that you often know not what you're doing, and even when you are aware, it's on a superficial level. You're off with the dream dwelling on the past, anxious and craving for a future, avoiding the discomforts, pursuing pleasures, and rarely being alive with the truth of this moment as you really are experiencing it.

One has to inquire of themselves not what can make me happy? But, 'What is true'? So, the Buddhist created a structure based on 4 Truths: 1. suffering exists; 2. it has a cause; 3. it can end; 4. there is a way to end it.

Then there's meditation to discover the way in which this is true for yourself, but people tend not to undertake the inquiry cuz it's kinda hard and... Squirrel!

[Joe Mc]

@Charly233. When you look at life in a certain way, then suffering becomes
defining. Science in this respect is very helpful showing us that nothing is
ever what we think it is, it is not static or defined or unchanging.
There seems also to be two paths, one of gnosis gaining knowledge about who God is and what our role is here in life.
The other path is more a lived path which has alot of acceptance and surrender as it's basis. You surrender to the fact that you can never fully know who or what God is with the human mind. Paradoxically, this approach often leads to a deep peace and knowing.
Perhaps these paths are correspondent to Bhakta and Jnana broadly speaking within Hinduism. Bhakta meaning surrender love devotion celebration and Jnana meaning, knowledge, acquisition and insight. But ive only toyed with this idea. Jnana doesn't mean what you often see folks doing
accumulating facts, figures, treatises, opinions, positions, stances..all about God !!! lol..
Point probably is once you start to label God and especially in relation to suffering you either end up in some human folly pointing your finger at other humans who don't know, judging them according to what God would have us believe etc. ... (not sure what im saying here lol) to be continued at least with myself !!! lol...ok thanks for the inspiration. Best Regards Joe.

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[charly233]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

You surrender to the fact that you can never fully know who or what God is with the human mind. Paradoxically, this approach often leads to a deep peace and knowing.

Thank you. I feel there is a lot right about this path. I don't know why suffering exists. I just feel that there must be some spiritual value to suffering and that it is kinder to those who suffer to see it this way. I don't know if the god that I Am deliberately set it up that way or not. I don't know myself.

Another related question is why do bad things happen to good people? I don't feel that god makes the bad things happen. The I Am is not to blame for the bad things. But she or he does help us to find spiritual value in the bad things when they do happen.

I feel that there is even greater spiritual value in pleasure rather than pain.

I hope that because I believe that pleasure is more spiritual than pain then that will help me to experience pleasure rather than pain. Maybe if I do experience pain and suffering this is telling me that there are unconscious beliefs that still value pain over pleasure. Maybe god, the I am, is helping me to heal this tendancy.

I don't know who or what god is. I don't know myself. I do know that this understanding brings a certain pleasurable feeling of peace.

I thank the I Am for this peace.

[Busby]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

Our thoughts cause most of our suffering.

I am personally not so sure that those millions of children on this planet
have even had a chance to think about it.
Their mothers too, begging for help and receiving none.
Or those dying at the moment in wars - I doubt if they attribute having *Deleted* to their thoughts.

[Redchic12]

Yes Busby I agree with you about those starving people and have often thought about it.

The only thing I can come up with is that they are suffering thru a PHYSICAL need and it is totally understandable and also very very sad. They only have thoughts of water, food and medicine. But even though it may sound harsh, it is still THOUGHTS.

So we ask ourselves, if we were in that state, could we not think of those three things? Yes that’s a hard one for me as well.

But in the western world we have everything that we NEED and our sense of suffering is more thru thoughts ie desiring this or that and wanting things, plus thinking someone should act a certain way and criticising others and ourselves and wishing things were something else rather than the way they are etc

So I do believe that our thoughts in the western world really do cause most of this suffering and I’ve learnt this not from a book but thru experience.

Thanks for bring that point up as it IS very important.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

But even though it may sound harsh, it is still THOUGHTS.

There is not one thing that happens to me this life that I did not create.
Either in my beliefs and thoughts now or patterns carried over from past lives.
I don't say 'karma' -it is misunderstood as some scary punishment.

And I was directly shown the above...I did not make it up or read it in a book.
Did I create my family of origin? You bet I did. The good, the bad and the ugly.
Did I, maybe, have a life of suffering in poverty and parental beatings...probably; and it made me
the person I am today.
There is a way bigger picture then the little myopic, pea brained view many think is the only reality.

The soul has had a long journey of many circumstances.
Which is obvious to many and I'm speaking to the choir mostly, I know...
and the few skeptics that drop in here and feel the need to counter spiritual aspects of existence many of us have experienced.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by lemex

But keep in mind other peoples thoughts cause suffering on others.
It is true each person cause their own suffering but another person may cause another's suffering.

I can't let this go, Post 11, letting a young person surfing the web or a mentally unstable person - reading this and leaving
with fear that other people's thoughts are harming them !


*Disclaimer*:
You may sit next to a person for an hour as they are hating you and
wishing you harm and walk away happy and continue on free of their negative thoughts.
.
.