The Place of Randomness and Unpredictable Behavior in a Structured Universe

[AaronStar]

How do you explain to yourself the unpredictable outcome of our behavior which seems to amaze our, for example, spiritual guides (just to illustrate it), although they know us so well as a nucleus?
Where is the place of the factor "randomness" in a highly structured world?
What triggers these two observable phenomena?
Do you believe they have a pattern, too, although they contradict the idea of having a pattern?
Why are we even capable of experiencing such a feeling as marvel at others' achievements, noble traits or low falls, although we know all is what it is?
I.e. what triggers such emotions as " wwoooww, look at that person!" ?
It even happens in the spiritual world, to awe someone or feel surprised at their behaviour.
I hope I summarised my idea well.
I.e. Where is the place of random and unpredictable occurrences in our vast world?
How is free will related to this?
Is it free will that makes it exactly possible?
How does free will liberate us and how does it burden us?
What would we be without free will?
Would we even truly exist?
How is non duality related to free will, not in terms of mastering it, but as an inner connection? Does non duality have something to do with it in terms of how non-duality became structurally possible?
Is there non-duality without free will?
Etcetera..

[FallingLeaves]

most randomness actually follows a pattern... we just don't understand the pattern so we call it patternless.

That makes everything highly predictable, to one who knows the pattern. Such as God.

Which is exactly what the powers that be are fighting: if it is all predictable and we will all figure out the pattern then try to find our place within the pattern and act accordingly, it will remain predictable and if it were possible get even more so. So there is impetuous to keep us from learning the specifics of the pattern - at least not en masse - best we can do is deludedly think we are getting somewhere in that regards. But then we get prideful and it all falls apart...

this plays into the free will vs slavery thing: if it is free will you don't feel a need to always follow the pattern to its letter and thus new patterns can open up. But if it is slavery you do follow the pattern to its letter and things just propagate the same way they always have.

That said, one of the best ways to become free, is to accept being a slave.

Again it plays into the love thing: sometimes you choose not to follow the pattern you see and allow something that is not correct in your own eyes because you have love for others. If you get that far then sometimes after that you learn you were wrong in the first place.

as far as nonduality - there is the way things are, and there is the way we perceive them. Things are what they are regardless, but we seem to have a choice as to whether to take the position of picking sides or try to merge it all together. Much easier to pick sides I suppose... after all everyone else is doing it...

[FallingLeaves]

to answer another of your questions... sometimes the answers come more from an initial choice than to anything else.

For example on free will, I could either choose to believe absolutely in it and place all my bets on it, or I could choose to not do so and believe everything is completely structured and there is no deviation from the structure.

What I believe in this regards has no relevance to any arguments presented, except in terms of what I've already chosen to believe about those arguments. So in the end it somewhere comes down to a choice... to deviate or not to deviate. If you choose to deviate (and it turns out it is possible to actually deviate) then you get more choices later... if you choose to not deviate then no more choices regardless because you've chosen to act according to the 'plan'.

Some would call this an argument for siding with the ability to choose over the ability not to... to sort of cover your bases? Another argument being that things seem kinda pointless if there is truly no ability to deviate from whatever the plan is. But even that kind of argument is hollow when it comes down to choosing whether to not choose.

Note that what people say about what they are doing has little bearing on what they are actually doing. Society has us all lying not only to each other but to our own selves about what our real motivations are.

[AaronStar]

I think it is innate in us, like programmed, to feel wonder and marvel, as this is the ultimate source to keep us going.
When you feel bored and used to something, there is no motivational power.
Therefore, you need to feel AWE.
So this magical alchemy was created in order for the DIVINE to be able to happen.
When you feel divine, you feel AWE for the Pure Source.
And deciphering this awe - wouldn't it destroy the magic of it?
I think the ABSOLUTE mystery needs to remain unattainable so that it can keep happening.
Or at least, there should be a way for it to keep a hold on us forever, otherwise ...
The boredom would definitely kill us.
This is a bit of a joke but not exactly.
To me, there is some really big importance of taking maybe reasonable and thoughtful decisions but still - coming from an organism that is in a way not predictable, not entirely calculated unlike a robot.
Maybe what We seek when trying to bring life in a robot-
This Essence, this Spark more like, that makes everything .. alive? Not just a poem learnt by heart. Maybe a poem but it would be mechanical.
In answer to your message, yes maybe you become self-controlled and you know yourself when attaining mastery - but your laughter doesn't come out controllably, right?
You don't plan on each step you take, it just happens... naturally.

[AaronStar]

That said, one of the best ways to become free, is to accept being a slave.

But I don't agree with that.
Slavery is not a natural state of being.
It is the opposite of freedom.
When you resign yourself to it, you can become an easy pray and a host for bad entities.
To lose control of your own creational process of manifesting desired realities, loosing track of universal laws of harmony and cosmological truce.
When you have love for others, you are not exactly a slave because you wish them so much good and it purifies you, keeps you benevolent.. but with time, it is preferable that you master control over it in order to avoid being manipulated and drained.
True slavery is to bad tendencied such as greed and hatred and worst case scenario, perverted disgustment.
You believe you are the master of all becuase you cause pain but then you are on a suicide road. I mean you like in "one".

[AaronStar]

I think I misinterpreted what you said. Did you mean that accepting being something is the key to overcoming it? I got it as embracing.

[AaronStar]

So in the end it somewhere comes down to a choice... to deviate or not to deviate. If you choose to deviate (and it turns out it is possible to actually deviate) then you get more choices later... if you choose to not deviate then no more choices regardless because you've chosen to act according to the 'plan'.

Yes exactly - and sometimes the spontaneity of this choice is marvellous! But yeah maybe there is a pattern behind it. Now I feel disappointed a bit. Just because you can't track it...doesnt mean its not there.
But sometimes even those who know us so well get surprised. Maybe only The Trinity doesn't get surprised.
And still, this spontaneity of deciding what to do next - not just as a learnt pattern, but more like, oh now I'm moving here, and I did not do it EXACTLY on purpose - I just did it because I wanted to - that's what intrigues me so much.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by AaronStar

I think it is innate in us, like programmed, to feel wonder and marvel, as this is the ultimate source to keep us going.
When you feel bored and used to something, there is no motivational power.
Therefore, you need to feel AWE.
So this magical alchemy was created in order for the DIVINE to be able to happen.
When you feel divine, you feel AWE for the Pure Source.
And deciphering this awe - wouldn't it destroy the magic of it?
I think the ABSOLUTE mystery needs to remain unattainable so that it can keep happening.
Or at least, there should be a way for it to keep a hold on us forever, otherwise ...
The boredom would definitely kill us.
This is a bit of a joke but not exactly.
To me, there is some really big importance of taking maybe reasonable and thoughtful decisions but still - coming from an organism that is in a way not predictable, not entirely calculated unlike a robot.
Maybe what We seek when trying to bring life in a robot-
This Essence, this Spark more like, that makes everything .. alive? Not just a poem learnt by heart. Maybe a poem but it would be mechanical.
In answer to your message, yes maybe you become self-controlled and you know yourself when attaining mastery - but your laughter doesn't come out controllably, right?
You don't plan on each step you take, it just happens... naturally.

maybe the fact that it appears random is a clue as to how it should be lol!

Just because it seems mostly decipherable to one who knows how to decipher it, that doesn't mean this is a desired way for things to be? Maybe even God is tired of being able to predict it so readily?

Maybe the message is to quit trying to figure out what it is and just choose without knowing the full story or completely knowing what will come next?

yeah kinda what you've been saying lol only coming at it from another vantage point lol.

[FallingLeaves]

on slavery... there are multiple things that can be said. Yes certainly if you want you can try to overcome it by accepting the fact of it. Another thing that few seem to realize however is if you want to stay awake through being a slave (which it would seem is difficult anyway) you can read it like a book and learn of things which aren't commonly known. Sure you don't get the social position we all yearn for if you do that, but there are always compensations for those who are willing to give up on the whole social positioning thing, I find.