Is the brain/nervous system the only parts of our body which can experience ESP?

Originally Posted by Greenslade

The jury is out on this one because there is a lot of new information coming through, and nobody is quite sure how we sense those extra-sensory perceptions. It was thought that our sense of smell was 'mechanical' but the recent understanding is that it's quantum mechanics. We have quantum-capable areas of the brain that seem as though they were specifically designed to sense the quantum, so it's possible that ESP is related to quantum mechanics. Those parts are shielded from the rest of the electrical activity. Whatever we perceive though is still 'filtered' by the brain/mind anyway so.....

I think the jury has yet to hear all the evidence quite honestly. I'm prompted by readings from a book you recommended (Consciousness and the Universe) and various other readings that interpret some neural activity/chemistry as quantum - but I haven't been able to follow through on anything totally up to date. I find myself always a couple of years behind simply because I haven't access to the latest research, except via Nature (the magazine) in which reports are usually published as hypotheses.

You raise an interesting point though: ESP does happen - more noticeably to a narrow few - 'noticeably' because perhaps everyone has it but it remains dormant or under-developed. It could be quantum but quantum has problems of its own to sort out. The processes referred to could also be probability at work (which is, ok, partially the same thing but easier to represent mathematically - I'd guess, anyway). It's a line worth pursuing even if it's speculation at the current stage.

I think we'll be waiting a long time before experiments can be devised and hypotheses develop. I suspect they will in the end as investigative techniques become ever more sophisticated. We'll have to wait and see.
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Originally Posted by Lorelyen

I think the jury has yet to hear all the evidence quite honestly. I'm prompted by readings from a book you recommended (Consciousness and the Universe) and various other readings that interpret some neural activity/chemistry as quantum - but I haven't been able to follow through on anything totally up to date. I find myself always a couple of years behind simply because I haven't access to the latest research, except via Nature (the magazine) in which reports are usually published as hypotheses.

You raise an interesting point though: ESP does happen - more noticeably to a narrow few - 'noticeably' because perhaps everyone has it but it remains dormant or under-developed. It could be quantum but quantum has problems of its own to sort out. The processes referred to could also be probability at work (which is, ok, partially the same thing but easier to represent mathematically - I'd guess, anyway). It's a line worth pursuing even if it's speculation at the current stage.

I think we'll be waiting a long time before experiments can be devised and hypotheses develop. I suspect they will in the end as investigative techniques become ever more sophisticated. We'll have to wait and see.
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Perhaps it's something like Orch-OR. There's also Donald Hoffman's Conscious Agents hypothesis but that seems more philosophical and mathematical at this point. At least Orch-OR points to structure, mechanism and an interpretation of collapse of the wave function.

https://youtu.be/YpUVot-4GPM?list=PL...XfywQvhBzzdrQA

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Perhaps it's something like Orch-OR. There's also Donald Hoffman's Conscious Agents hypothesis but that seems more philosophical and mathematical at this point. At least Orch-OR points to structure, mechanism and an interpretation of collapse of the wave function.

https://youtu.be/YpUVot-4GPM?list=PL...XfywQvhBzzdrQA

Interesting. That video combines with the book I mentioned "Consciousness and the Universe" a collection of papers put together by Hameroff and Penrose, the first being "Consciousness in the Universe: Neuroscience, Quantum Space-time Geometry and Orch OR theory."
I found that paper quite heavy going - the writing isn't the most articulate though thankfully it doesn't involve too much maths - not my strong point. (Which isn't to say that all the papers are difficult.)

Hameroff and Penrose put forward ideas for discussion and present their case but it's by no means conclusive.
Hopefully when it can be biologically investigated, quantum won't run into some of its usual troubles!

But I have only the most superficial knowledge of quantum physics and bow to those more deeply involved.
Thanks for the link.
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Originally Posted by Lorelyen

I think the jury has yet to hear all the evidence quite honestly. I'm prompted by readings from a book you recommended (Consciousness and the Universe) and various other readings that interpret some neural activity/chemistry as quantum - but I haven't been able to follow through on anything totally up to date. I find myself always a couple of years behind simply because I haven't access to the latest research, except via Nature (the magazine) in which reports are usually published as hypotheses.

You raise an interesting point though: ESP does happen - more noticeably to a narrow few - 'noticeably' because perhaps everyone has it but it remains dormant or under-developed. It could be quantum but quantum has problems of its own to sort out. The processes referred to could also be probability at work (which is, ok, partially the same thing but easier to represent mathematically - I'd guess, anyway). It's a line worth pursuing even if it's speculation at the current stage.

I think we'll be waiting a long time before experiments can be devised and hypotheses develop. I suspect they will in the end as investigative techniques become ever more sophisticated. We'll have to wait and see.
.

It's cool that there is still a discovery going on, that there are areas that are in their infancy yet nature has been using them for so many years. I was watching a YouTube about the European swallow and how the earth's magnetic field causes quantum fluctuations in a special gland in its eyes, and it uses that to navigate.

On a more Spiritual note I can't help but wonder of things like mediumship, Gnosis and intuition are quantum-related, and what makes us buzz when we're standing in a stone circle at the Solstice. We sense energies, sometimes people who are not ESP-capable suddenly finding themselves shuddering when they walk into a room. It's been said that this is because people leave behind energetic 'footprints'.

My question is that is God can do some quantum jioggery-pokery and create all of this, what would happen if we could do the same? If our consciousness could interact with the wave function beyond the experiment? Is that happening already?

[Starman]

Originally Posted by traceyacey12

Is the brain/nervous system the only parts of our body which can experience ESP (extra-sensory perception)?

It is called “extra-sensory” because seemingly it is beyond the pale of everyday perception. All of our senses go deep within us, we have outer sight and we also have insight, we have inner hearing, feeling, and tasting. All of our senses are inter connected. Our sense of smell effects our sense of taste. The primordial sensation which is the foundation of all other sensations, or experiences, is touch, or the ability to feel.

The deeper we can feel the more sensitive we become, along with that sensitivity a new perception opens to us. It’s not really new, it has been there all along; we just now acquired a perception that allows us to readily see it. We are spiritual beings having a human experience, and this experience requires we sacrifice some of our intrinsic gifts or features. Spirit is limited by its expression through a human body, but it is a trade-off.

It is only extrasensory to us because it is beyond the pale of ordinary human senses. What we call “extrasensory” is but a more natural state of being. Outside of our human body, we can see, hear, and feel, with every part of our being. The human central nervous system, primarily brain and spinal cord, allow for a profound exchange of energy by way of its chakra system. But we have smaller charkas all over our physical body. A person with brain damage can experience ESP.

Basically what I wrote here is what I have
derived from my own experiences.

Originally Posted by Starman

It is called “extra-sensory” because seemingly it is beyond the pale of everyday perception. All of our senses go deep within us, we have outer sight and we also have insight, we have inner hearing, feeling, and tasting. All of our senses are inter connected. Our sense of smell effects our sense of taste. The primordial sensation which is the foundation of all other sensations, or experiences, is touch, or the ability to feel.

The deeper we can feel the more sensitive we become, along with that sensitivity a new perception opens to us. It’s not really new, it has been there all along; we just now acquired a perception that allows us to readily see it. We are spiritual beings having a human experience, and this experience requires we sacrifice some of our intrinsic gifts or features. Spirit is limited by its expression through a human body, but it is a trade-off.

It is only extrasensory to us because it is beyond the pale of ordinary human senses. What we call “extrasensory” is but a more natural state of being. Outside of our human body, we can see, hear, and feel, with every part of our being. The human central nervous system, primarily brain and spinal cord, allow for a profound exchange of energy by way of its chakra system. But we have smaller charkas all over our physical body. A person with brain damage can experience ESP.

Basically what I wrote here is what I have
derived from my own experiences.

Interesting, Starman. Thank you for your input

Originally Posted by inavalan

That is an interesting question ...

How do we "perceive"? With our 5 senses apparently, but also with intuition. How do all of them work? What are we? Are we only these physical bodies? Are we more? What? Where? How and to what are we connected? Are there other senses we don't use, or we aren't aware we use?

What is the brain? What is its role?

I believe that everything is ESP, we just aren't aware of that, and we perceive only with our minds, with no body parts.

This is also interesting now that i re-read it. thanks :)

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Interesting. That video combines with the book I mentioned "Consciousness and the Universe" a collection of papers put together by Hameroff and Penrose, the first being "Consciousness in the Universe: Neuroscience, Quantum Space-time Geometry and Orch OR theory."
I found that paper quite heavy going - the writing isn't the most articulate though thankfully it doesn't involve too much maths - not my strong point. (Which isn't to say that all the papers are difficult.)

Hameroff and Penrose put forward ideas for discussion and present their case but it's by no means conclusive.
Hopefully when it can be biologically investigated, quantum won't run into some of its usual troubles!

But I have only the most superficial knowledge of quantum physics and bow to those more deeply involved.
Thanks for the link.
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I don't know that Orch-OR is valid, and especially considering I'm not a neuroscientist or physicist. It's got a long way to go towards that end but it's intriguing nonetheless, even though the details are way above my pay grade! That being said and based on my experience I'm convinced consciousness is non-local and not constrained by space and time.

Quantum entanglement demonstrates space is not a constraint and the delayed-choice quantum eraser experiment demonstrates time is not a constraint either.

My intuition is consciousness is beyond quantum mechanics, QM being perhaps its first manifestation and what we observe as physical reality a manifestation of QM. Through the senses and then the brain and then the mind and then QM, consciousness is the ultimate and true experiencer of all experience.

When we hear someone clap the very first experience, the direct experience, is that of consciousness. Then mind through brain thinks about that direct experience and that thinking is more experience presented to consciousness.

We have a local effect and a non-local effect, the local effect bound by space and time and the non-local effect not bound. Things like ESP, clairvoyance, precognition, etc... are a bleed-through from the non-local to the local. It's so much out of our normal local experience it's disorienting to say the least.

At least that's the extent of my contemplation and explanation of a possible mechanism, crude as it might be.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I don't know that Orch-OR is valid, and especially considering I'm not a neuroscientist or physicist. It's got a long way to go towards that end but it's intriguing nonetheless, even though the details are way above my pay grade! That being said and based on my experience I'm convinced consciousness is non-local and not constrained by space and time.

Quantum entanglement demonstrates space is not a constraint and the delayed-choice quantum eraser experiment demonstrates time is not a constraint either.

My intuition is consciousness is beyond quantum mechanics, QM being perhaps its first manifestation and what we observe as physical reality a manifestation of QM. Through the senses and then the brain and then the mind and then QM, consciousness is the ultimate and true experiencer of all experience.

When we hear someone clap the very first experience, the direct experience, is that of consciousness. Then mind through brain thinks about that direct experience and that thinking is more experience presented to consciousness.

We have a local effect and a non-local effect, the local effect bound by space and time and the non-local effect not bound. Things like ESP, clairvoyance, precognition, etc... are a bleed-through from the non-local to the local. It's so much out of our normal local experience it's disorienting to say the least.

At least that's the extent of my contemplation and explanation of a possible mechanism, crude as it might be.

Sounds good to me. Thanks for the response :)