Can Science Reveal God?

Originally Posted by mickiel

We have found no physical evidence of Hercules, we have physical evidence of Jesus existence. We have;

The actual house of two of his closest friends
We have the bones of two people who met him
We have the river he was baptised in
We have the actual city he walked in
The actual garden he prayed in
The place he was killed at
Evidence of the Roman Pilot who judged him
Actual ground he walked on

I challange you to produce anything simular that supports the existence of Hercules.

There is no evidence that Jesus was a historical figure except for the actual gospels. Same goes for Herclues.

"Scholars' efforts to eliminate paganism from the Gospels in order to find a historical Jesus have proved as hopeless as searching for a core in an onion."237 The "gospel" story of Jesus is not a factual portrayal of a historical "master" who walked the earth 2,000 years ago. It is a myth built upon other myths and godmen, who in turn were personifications of the ubiquitous sun god mythos.

D.M. Murdock


The Christ of the gospels is in no sense an historical personage or a supreme model of humanity, a hero who strove, and suffered, and failed to save the world by his death. It is impossible to establish the existence of an historical character even as an impostor. For such an one the two witnesses, astronomical mythology and gnosticism, completely prove an alibi. The Christ is a popular lay-figure that never lived, and a lay-figure of Pagan origin; a lay-figure that was once the Ram and afterwards the Fish; a lay-figure that in human form was the portrait and image of a dozen different gods.

Gerald Massey, The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ


Taken from this free Ebook:

http://www.stellarhousepublishing.co...ristianity.pdf


you can debate the author on any of her points online here:
http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/

Originally Posted by Mazulu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_in_a_box

In quantum mechanics, particles like electrons can be trapped inside of a potential energy box. If the potential energy barrier is infinite, then there is no chance that the particle can tunnel out and escape. If the potential energy is finite, there is a chance that the electron can exist on the other side of the barrier and thus, escape. If you look at the pictures in the article, you'll see these waving things which are the wave-functions of the particle. I am arguing that those wave-functions are a manifestation of spirit.

There is nothing tangible about the wave function, it has a geometric interpretation with a mass and charge density but nothing physical exists. But the other thing is that it's purely statistical in nature. Wave functions have no freewill or ability to move around as ghosts because they are probability waves. Why would a ghost or spirit be confined to being a probability function?

Quantum fields are not the new aether, that implies a special frame of reference that is not allowed by relativity.
The vacuum itself is what the modern aether concept is.


This is what I was talking about with information theory, these things lack physical properties but the information that tells them to be statistical is still there.
Yes if you only look at one thing you won't get the big picture but I don't see how that changes the fact that nature is probabilistic?


If ghost matter had an associated field what would it's associated particle be? Why isn't it predicted in the standard model?
Remember when a field is not excited there is nothing there, just space-time, it's just a mathematical description. Is a ghost field a scalar, vector, tensor, or operator field?

Going back to information theory, saying that a ghost or spirit is a quantum field is saying that spirit only exists as a potentiality. That it isn't there until there is a disturbance in the field which gives these ghosts no freewill. Some other field has to excite it. So the question is why? What gap in our theories calls for that fix? Outside of wishful thinking what would cause this hypothesis?
Does it fix any other problems? Does it make predictions that can be tested?


I've been living 30 feet from a small cemetery and am inviting ghosts to come by. Haven't seen anything.

Originally Posted by joelr

I've been living 30 feet from a small cemetery and am inviting ghosts to come by. Haven't seen anything.

Better check for Higgs bosons too while you're at it. Maybe you'll prove that the Higgs field doesn't exist because you didn't see any bosons either.

Originally Posted by mickiel

Is there such thing as using Science to help us, in essence " Prove God exist?" An interesting question, it is commonly believed that there is no proof of God. I myself, tend to disagree with that; I think God most certainly can be proven, and the way to do it, is to first prove it to yourself! And there are many ways to do that; Using Archaeology, using Romance, using a study of Consciousness, a study of human nature, a study of history; and a study of " Science."

Science can most defintely reveal God; it helped do it for me. Because I have always wanted to know; wondered if God existed. And let me share with you how Science helped me to see God exist much more clearly.

The " Law of Biogenesis", which is composed of two parts; The first part states that living things only come from other living things, and not from non-living matter. Life only comes from Life. The second part of this states that when living things procreate, their offspring are the same type of organism they are. This is consistent with the biblical account in Genesis, which says all living things reproduce after their own kind. And this is a sure science.

When science has ventured into " Crossbreeding", and abnormal lines are crossed, " Sterility" is always the result. For example; a horse and a donkey can mate and produce a Mule, but the Mule is always sterile and unable to procreate. The fact that hybrid offspring do not have the ability to reproduce is strong evidence against evolutiuon and for creation. And this science can reveal God.

Hey did you see that movie "What the Bleep Do We Know?" because I think they were trying to use Quantum Physics to show how God/ the Universe works. It was an interesting movie and I picked up a Book on Quantum Physics because I'm fascinated by it, even though I only know a little bit. I've only read the first couple chapters but I think the study of Quantum Physics can give understanding about the way the Law of Attraction works.

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by cristianprince67

Hey did you see that movie "What the Bleep Do We Know?" because I think they were trying to use Quantum Physics to show how God/ the Universe works. It was an interesting movie and I picked up a Book on Quantum Physics because I'm fascinated by it, even though I only know a little bit. I've only read the first couple chapters but I think the study of Quantum Physics can give understanding about the way the Law of Attraction works.

I think it can give more understanding, yes.

[mickiel]

If God were not real, then nothing could reveal him. Conversely if he is real, then anything that is real could reveal him.

Now, God is conscious, which is his image that we are created in; but mind you that consciousness in humanity is powerful, because God is powerful. As a direct offshoot of that, our consciousness can be;

Independent and self motivated. We will draw our own conclusions, create our own beliefs and views. We will make ourselves Mediums and Masters of what so ever we choose, and direct our conscious powers into those mediums and desires. And consciousness is talented enough to do great things in our minds! And great things TO our minds.

This is how science came to be, and its how ANY conscious medium now exist!

Originally Posted by joelr

There is nothing tangible about the wave function, it has a geometric interpretation with a mass and charge density but nothing physical exists. But the other thing is that it's purely statistical in nature. Wave functions have no freewill or ability to move around as ghosts because they are probability waves. Why would a ghost or spirit be confined to being a probability function?

Wave functions are a collection of eigenstates which are measured at random or appear at random. By the way, the wave function PSI is not purely statistical, (PSI*)(PSI) is the statistical part.

You state your belief that ghosts cannot be a quantum field of some kind. But I don't see a problem with the idea of quantum field life forms.

Quantum fields are not the new aether, that implies a special frame of reference that is not allowed by relativity. The vacuum itself is what the modern aether concept is.

It is a strawman argument to attack the aether as a special frame of reference. The reality of it is that the space-time continuum is a real ting that you cannot see or directly measure. It is far more likely that it came from something that you cannot see, then to assume it came from nothing. Uncaused causes are called magic, even if you atheist scientists use Jedi mind tricks to tell "the people" that there is no magic. Uncaused causes are magic.

This is what I was talking about with information theory, these things lack physical properties but the information that tells them to be statistical is still there.
Yes if you only look at one thing you won't get the big picture but I don't see how that changes the fact that nature is probabilistic?

Probabilistic also presents the opportunity for free will. You can put down two six sided dice in any way that you wish.

If ghost matter had an associated field what would it's associated particle be? Why isn't it predicted in the standard model?
Remember when a field is not excited there is nothing there, just space-time, it's just a mathematical description. Is a ghost field a scalar, vector, tensor, or operator field?

The associated particle would be some manifestation of that person, an apparition, a touch, even the ability to generate thoughts within the brain of a living person.

Going back to information theory, saying that a ghost or spirit is a quantum field is saying that spirit only exists as a potentiality. That it isn't there until there is a disturbance in the field which gives these ghosts no freewill. Some other field has to excite it. So the question is why? What gap in our theories calls for that fix? Outside of wishful thinking what would cause this hypothesis?
Does it fix any other problems? Does it make predictions that can be tested?

One of the reasons for a ghost/spirit/soul is that it can experience and observe. When released from a body, the spirit experiences the aether, the astral, heaven, hell and anything that is wants to.

[mickiel]

Heres an interesting article on Science and Spirituality;

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...spirituality-0

[mickiel]

Did you know that 20% of Atheist scientist consider themselves to be spiritual?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_858780.html

The way we know that wave-functions are tangible things is because they interfere with one another and they interact with charges, slits, etc. If they didn't exist, they wouldn't interact.