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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Meditation

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  #21  
Old 22-04-2022, 06:19 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
I can't point to a book that describes "Chetan Nidra" (conscious sleep) in great detail. The actual methodology was communicated to me by sages in one-on-one communications.
Thanks .
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  #22  
Old 23-04-2022, 02:51 AM
Xan Xan is offline
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Looking at the matter of sleep vs meditation from the point of brain wave states can be helpful.

Beta (12-35Hz) is alertness in the outer world and the surface mind.
Alpha (7-12Hz) is relaxed inward focus of imagination, creativity, dreaming and accessing the subconscious mind.
Theta (4-7Hz) is the deeper inward attention of meditation in silent presence. (Also good for healing.)
Delta (0.1-4Hz) is deep dreamless sleep.

The body needs regular rest in Delta for health and well being, so it works best to allow that for the first several hours of your sleep period.
Then would be a good time to do a practice that keeps you in Theta state for meditation, while continuing to rest.
.
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Last edited by Xan : 23-04-2022 at 03:36 AM.
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  #23  
Old 23-04-2022, 06:45 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xan
Looking at the matter of sleep vs meditation from the point of brain wave states can be helpful. Beta (12-35Hz) ... Alpha (7-12Hz) ... Theta (4-7Hz) ... Delta (0.1-4Hz).
Just to complete the picture, there are also
  • Epsilon waves (below Delta)
  • Gamma (35-99Hz)
  • Hyper Gamma (100-199Hz)
  • Lambda (beyond Hyper Gamma).
Researchers have discovered high-amplitude Gamma activity in the brains of highly seasoned meditators during the practice of the Tibetan Buddhist Loving-Kindness Meditation. This pattern has been associated with exceptional information processing, compassion and extraordinary focus.

Consciousness researcher Dr. Jeffrey Thompson found activity even faster than this, which he referred to as Hyper-Gamma (100 – 199 Hz). He correlated this state with extraordinary states of consciousness and spiritual development.

Apparently epsilon and lambda, despite being at opposite ends of the spectrum, are very closely related.

More information at https://www.binauralbeatsfreak.com/b...s-lambda-waves

And for those interested iAwake offer downloads and CDs of gamma, hyper gamma, epsilon and lambda brainwave entrainment. They are interesting.

Peace
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  #24  
Old 23-04-2022, 07:33 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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This brain waves thing reminds of "the chicken or the egg" dilemma ... "the brain wave or the state of consciousness"? I believe that the "egg" and the "state of consciousness" are primordial.

I think that the state of consciousness is multi-dimensional, while the brain waves are just its 3D projection. I mean that there are multiple states of consciousness that have the same brain wave signature.

Similarly, a person who seems asleep can actually be in any number of states of consciousness.

The "conscious sleep" seems a potential breakthrough for one's evolvement. I've read about it in other places too.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #25  
Old 24-04-2022, 06:35 AM
Justin Passing Justin Passing is offline
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Binaural beats. Interesting. I haven't tried that. Thanks for the links iamthat.

Then again, I'm not sure I want to mess with it. My way of doing things centers around "letting things happen", and this falls into the category of "making things happen". Typically when I do that all I make is a big mess. Still, it's tempting.

@inavalan - "Conscious sleep" has certainly benefited me in lots of ways. Pretty much every way. It shows me what I need to know and leads me where I need to go. In a very real way it's my guide.

Since I typically just "wander" I rarely know what to call anything, but I suspect you're right about multiple states of consciousness having the same brain wave signature. In my experience, sleeping includes too many different "states of consciousness" for it to be otherwise. I also think they're wrong about not "dreaming" in deep sleep. I can't be sure of course - I've no way of measuring what "level" I'm sleeping at - but I think I've consciously experienced deep sleep on a number of occasions. Rather odd that. Still, there are places I can't "consciously" go. I go there, but not with full awareness. I'll eventually solve that I'm sure. Always have in the past. It just takes time.
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  #26  
Old 24-04-2022, 10:07 PM
JustBe JustBe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
By intent. . Then release thoughts and in an aspect of trust and surrender slip into sleep, seeking nothing save unification of in-form consciousness with the vast void, both within and around.
Then let go.
Preparation of sleep tends to elude many people. You’ll see tendencies where people fall into bed exhausted, are over stimulated right up to sleep time. Healthy activity tends to support better sleep all the same.

I wonder too, if the quality of sleep through all stages of one’s sleep is dependent upon an integration of those sleep rhythms? Also when you says ‘let go’ I imagine the ability to let go deep awake, would reflect how well one lets go into those deeper levels of sleep and rest and how peacefully they merge and meld together during the course of the night.

Personally if I’m in dream state too much, I’m tired upon waking. I might be in bed for nine hrs but recall much of the night dream wake periods over riding deep sleep.

Most of my dream landscape now is like a movie playing out but if I ‘wake up’ it’s usually the by product of awareness that is most important. I’d rather that in the day time personally. Let myself be rested deeper. Mainly because my work/life/living balance requires it.

There’s an awareness too that previously dreaming was my teacher of deeper unconscious stuff I needed to address at a conscious level. ‘Waking me up literally’ this was a very active period of growth.

Nowdays i notice I don’t need to keep myself awake tending to dreams as a conscious marker. But rather I’m developing a deeper level of observer which in time will serve a deeper rest beyond this.

Really my dreamer is me in every way I am. So tending to yourself in all ways of being awake would support more quality of sleep as I see it.

So in this view, becoming the meditation awake or asleep is waking up deeper and integrating a more unified field as one/as you.

A lot of people consciously wanting to access the unknown into knowing may naturally disrupt sleep rhythms with that need to know. The body activated by the minds desire.
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  #27  
Old 25-04-2022, 12:15 PM
Justin Passing Justin Passing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBe
Personally if Iím in dream state too much, Iím tired upon waking. I might be in bed for nine hrs but recall much of the night dream wake periods over riding deep sleep.
Many people experience being "tired" when they get "too much sleep". I've always dismissed that as sleep debt, but I'm sure there are other reasons as well, like the ones you've pointed out. Still, I only wake up tired if I get too little sleep, or my sleep doesn't work due to anxiety or something.

As you become more aware of dreaming waking up can become a problem. What I've found that works is focusing on my memories. Normal dreaming has it's own set of memories. As you become aware you can focus on your dream memories to stay asleep or focus on your waking memories (real life) to wake up. It's simple to do, and it works, at least for me. In fact, I've even managed to go to sleep that way sometimes.

Making sure my sleep works is part of the reason why I refuse to "direct" the process. I trust my dreamer to take care of me. And while he does bring unconscious things to my attention from time to time, that's not his main job imo. His main job is guiding me. Helping me grow and taking me where I need to go. My "go with the flow" attitude leaves my waking life somewhat chaotic and unstructured, so doing my "real work" dreaming makes sense to me. In fact, from time to time, my dreamer will tell me to go to sleep, which I assume means I have work to do.

I worry that people trying to convert their sleep time into meditation time don't appreciate how important sleeping is. So many people feel like the time they spend sleeping is "wasted time" when nothing could be further from the truth. I think there's nothing wrong with meditating while asleep, but you do need to make sure you allow sleep to do it's job, so your meditation should be "allowing" rather than "controlling" imo.
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  #28  
Old 25-04-2022, 01:28 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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QUOTE 27 EXCERPT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Passing

I worry that people trying to convert their sleep time into meditation time don't appreciate how important sleeping is. So many people feel like the time they spend sleeping is "wasted time" when nothing could be further from the truth. I think there's nothing wrong with meditating while asleep, but you do need to make sure you allow sleep to do it's job, so your meditation should be "allowing" rather than "controlling" imo.

I once met a yogi at the foothills of the Himalayas who practiced an extreme version of "chetan nidra" (conscious sleep). He was fully rested and alert as he lectured throughout the month that I observed him at the Khumba Mela in India, and did not "sleep" in the traditional supine position during the time that I observed him. His followers noted that he had not "slept" in the traditional supine position for years.

I tend to gravitate towards extraordinary beings. His silent glance and the two words "chetan nidra" spoke volumes. I understood.
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  #29  
Old 25-04-2022, 02:26 PM
Justin Passing Justin Passing is offline
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@Still_Waters - I'm sure that yogi was taking good care of himself. I've no doubt that can be done without sleeping in the traditional sense. It's all about balancing after all, and there are lots of ways to balance, repair, rejuvenate, energize, etc. But doing that isn't trivial. For most of us, sleep is essential, and we'll literally die without it.
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  #30  
Old 25-04-2022, 10:56 PM
RedEmbers RedEmbers is offline
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Interesting topic.

I find that some evenings, I don't seem to sleep very much but I am in a meditative state for almost 8 hours.

It used to irritate me because I was worried about not getting enough sleep.

Recently I heard that some forms of meditation rest the brain to the same degree that a good sleep can.

I'm not sure of the exact scientific thinking on this but I did notice that my own relationship to being in a concious awake and meditative state became more relaxed and restful after I heard this information.

I guess that I probably surrendered to not being asleep all night haha.
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