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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Taoism

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  #41  
Old 25-08-2021, 11:59 AM
Legrand
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The story of how I found this book.

I was in town at 25 preparing to go see my my father for the weekend to his house in Nature and I wanted a book to read. So I went to the library. Looking at the books, there was one shinning of a yellow light, so I took it.

When I arrived at my fathers place he was rereading a book on Jung and I showed him my book I just bought. He said thank you for bringing it to him, it was the version of the book, the secret of the golden flower, he was looking for. So I had nothing to read during my weekend and had to go buy the book again to read it latter.

He always did this to me, ask me to buy things for him telepathically, when I was thinking I was buying them for me. Would it be food or other things.

Antoine
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  #42  
Old 25-08-2021, 02:44 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legrand
I am curious from what author? I like the version of the secret of the Golden Flower by Thomas Cleary. He corrects in it some of the translation from the version Jung always had near his bed.

I wasn't sure which was preferred, and fortunately they were cheap enough I could order both. Then I read wikipedia and reread decibelles post and I realize you are right about the cleary being the better one to read. So I'm thinking I'll read cleary and then skim the other one out of curiousity, to see what the differences are...
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  #43  
Old 25-08-2021, 04:51 PM
Guillaume Guillaume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legrand
He always did this to me, ask me to buy things for him telepathically, when I was thinking I was buying them for me. Would it be food or other things.

Law of Attraction, nice story!
Talking about that and turning around...
Once I was watching a game at a bar with friends, one was sitting next to me and grabbed 2 beers, then said, quite puzzled "I don't know why I'm taking 2 beers I only need one". He turned around and asked her girlfriend "do you want a beer, I've opened 2 of them", and she replied "oh, that's very nice of you", then her boyfriend came back to the game (still confused), but I could see her eye telling me she'd asked for it!
Guys, be careful, your girlfriend/wife could be manipulating you!!
(we all do that without realizing I think)
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  #44  
Old 25-08-2021, 05:28 PM
Legrand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guillaume


(we all do that without realizing I think)

Hello Guillaume,

Yes we share our thoughts more than we think.

Antoine
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  #45  
Old 25-08-2021, 10:16 PM
deci belle deci belle is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legrand
I am curious from what author? I like the version of the secret of the Golden Flower by Thomas Cleary. He corrects in it some of the translation from the version Jung always had near his bed.

"When one uses this technique (returning the Light) for the first time, one has the impression of a non-being in the being. But once the work is done, when you have a body beyond the body, you have the impression of a being in the non-being."

Chapter III Paragraph 2

Antoine

Having the impression of nonbeing within being is just the light of impersonal awareness in spontaneous activity by virtue of the person (as a situationally karmic element). Enlightening activity commences by virtue of the person assuming itself within the contet of the situation's potential as an "inert element" facilitating impersonal adaption.

This constitutes a profound "reversal" in that where once the psychological (the personality's self-reifying psychological apparatus) obscured the spiritual (nonpsychological) function, and now, the psychological has reverted to its proper relationship in service to the spiritual (function) to assist and facilitate selfless influence in terms of situational potential (the essence of the real which is inherent in the karmic).

As the work progresses over a long period of time, one suddenly discovers for oneself, in terms of the nonoriginated, selfless aware absolute nature of reality that the "body beyond the body" has no origination, (the immaterial body)being awareness prior to creation. Obviously this is nonbeing, yet the body of knowledge is seen to "hover auspiciously in silence in the dim void of space." This is the Absolute. The absolute is what reality looks like from the other side. Delusion is what reality looks like from this side. In reality, they are the same. All prior illuminates know this and function transcendentally by virtue of the knowledge. This is the secret of the golden flower awakening.

Quote:
When one uses this technique (returning the Light) for the first time, one has the impression of a non-being in the being,
This means one is operating in the midst of delusional (ordinary) situations by virtue of its (the situation's) transcendent potential alone. This is why I say it is to be carried out in broad daylight without anyone knowing. In all truth, there is nothing (oneself) to know. One's adaption is "spiritual" in that there is no reification of the person in terms of the psychological apparatus of the being tht is going to die. I hesitate to call this "selfless" adaption due to the preconceptions western culture has posited on the term "selfless."

At any rate, using selfless awareness (selflessly— that is, void of intellectualization relative to the knower, thinker and liver of life), in the midst of karmic evolution, one's acts have no relative investment in terms of creation, therefore transcendence in the midst of the creative's karmic energy is as natural as the immaterial body of awareness hovering silently in the midst of the void. Using selfless awareness selflessly (as opposed to selfishly as ordinary people do) is the meaning of "turning the light around." It's not mystical at all.

Some people feel compelled to make this all out to be something "beyond the personal mind." I say BUNK. Reality IS your mind right now, whether you know it or not. Even people who experience sudden enlightenment are not immune to confusion in this regard. Enlightening activity does not depend on sudden enlightenment. Why? Because enlightenment is already your own mind right now.

This is the meaning of the saying,
Quote:
"Even if you know, if you cannot act on the knowledge, it is the same as if you are ignorant.

Sudden enlightenment does not confer buddhahood. It can only be termed as "planting the seed of buddhahood in the homeland of nothing whatsoever." Therefore those who are content to sit in silent illumination void of anticipatory consciousness in cloistered venues without ever doing actual work of gradual refinement of real potential from within the midst of delusional (karmic) realms will only be refining yin, not yang. It is necessary to refine both yin and yang as one, to end up with the result of unified non-originated non-differentiated complete reality.

As mind is one, seeing reality (impersonal unified situational potential) instead of as things being other vis-a-vis the false self (in terms of situational karmic momentum) is the natural aspect of spiritual transformation in the midst of (and by virtue of) karma.

Why? Karma (creation/delusion/dualistic conscious functionality) and reality (nonorigination/selfless awareness/unified nonpsychological functionality) are not essentially different. They are essentially the same, in terms of potential.

Ordinary people see self and other in the light of creation, while enlightening beings see reality (potential) by the light of nonorigination. One is bondage to birth and death, while one is naturally transcendent in the midst of objects.

The whole point of "practice" per se, is in transcendent transformation in the midst of creation without going along with the laws of karma. Doing so or not is a matter of seeing alone.

"Practicing" turning the light around in formal silent sitting meditation is a weak, selfish (personal) method of temporary liberation. Some find it necessary and useful in the beginning of self-refining activity. Eventually, one must enter the "marketplace" and practice the Science of Life to gather real, living potential. That is, to steal the pearl of immortality from within the dragon's lair.

Taoism calls this "taking over Creation and stealing its potential."
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  #46  
Old 27-08-2021, 04:46 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Therefore those who are content to sit in silent illumination void of anticipatory consciousness in cloistered venues without ever doing actual work of gradual refinement of real potential from within the midst of delusional (karmic) realms will only be refining yin, not yang. It is necessary to refine both yin and yang as one, to end up with the result of unified non-originated non-differentiated complete reality.

when I tried to point out that you are missing something by following only the standard left-handed (yin) approach to meditation I felt derided enough that I just gave up on sharing that tidbit. I'm gradually learning not to feed pearls to swine...

anyway on delusion... I don't know how to verify a lack of delusion but I have come far enough to sense that if I suddenly decide I'm not deluded, I've fallen for one of the biggest delusions. This place seems serious in its desire to keep us from seeing the 'world' in its true form.
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  #47  
Old 27-08-2021, 06:38 PM
Legrand
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
This place seems serious in its desire to keep us from seeing the 'world' in its true form.

Hello Falling Leaves,

As a whole, their seem to be a slow creative evolution process, as would say Henry Bergson, going on in this 'world' as a totality. As one 'individual' of this 'world' tries to accelerate this slow process, their seems to be 'forces' that try to retain him in doing this faster that than the global evolution process. Yet in this effort from the 'individual' their seem to be also a small contribution made into accelerating this global creative evolution process.

This is my simple opinion.

There may be some that negate or make abstraction of a global creative evolution of this world in its temporary existence, really thinking that they are individuals completely separated from the whole.

But this is another opinion of mine.

As soon as the 'world' in its totality sees the world in it's true form, there will be no more 'world'.

An analogy can be made with Einstein relativity theory. Would a single mass, no matter how small it is, tries to reach the exact speed of light, it's mass will become infinite, that of all the physical Universe as it does so. Thus this small mass becoming the Universe. The more this small mass comes closer to that of the speed of light, the more energy it needs, until the amount of energy needed to reach the speed of light for that little mass becomes infinite. The rest of the physical universe is pulling on any form of gravitational mass that tries to reach the speed of light. Photon are the exception to that as they travel at the speed of light and have this ability to have zero mass, yet they also react in other circumstance to the gravitational pull of a massive objects like a star or else.

Regards

Antoine

Last edited by Legrand : 27-08-2021 at 07:35 PM.
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  #48  
Old 27-08-2021, 09:41 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 5,061
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legrand
Hello Falling Leaves,

As one 'individual' of this 'world' tries to accelerate this slow process, their seems to be 'forces' that try to retain him in doing this faster that than the global evolution process. Yet in this effort from the 'individual' their seem to be also a small contribution made into accelerating this global creative evolution process.

I very much agree with your sentiments as I've seen how things can change, however, I also know that it has been said, you get back what you put out kinda like a mirror. Law of attraction and all that. Which seemingly is just as descriptive of the same things (both talk of external changes based on internal changes) but it has a different slant... the implied results are different. In one case humanity is being slightly lifted just because individuals dare step into the light, in the other individuals have a 'method' for getting things they want.

Again it is said, if I act the 'proper' way I will be rewarded? But everyone knows the 'proper' way to act, and everyone knows the rewards that they should want, and look at what trouble that causes.

And that is the 'problem' here... use a slightly different description for the same thing and then two people go off on tangents to each other then we have wars and such. But more importantly to the current conversation just that very little difference in how you describe something can make a huge difference in how it is received (again because of the implied results). Given that there are many such competing ideas, once we put in our desires for how things SHOULD be into the mix we can't help but land in one delusion or another...

But like you say IMO there are 'forces' trying to help us get a clearer picture of who we are.
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  #49  
Old 27-08-2021, 11:53 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Posts: 5,061
 
i read the book now, and what I want to say about it is I think the techniques are solid. Paying attention is a very big deal, apparently...

honestly if you follow along with it you get to a point where you realize exactly what is said: you aren't able to do anything real by sleep-walking. Despite the many seeming protestations you hear from all the people seeming to do just that...

Sleepwalking is like an echo-chamber. Reactions follow reactions follow reactions and getting to something real is accidental at best.

but at the same time I would be hesitant to choose this as a way of life. Even though I empathize with what was said.

I've always been hesitant about choosing a way of life. Because I've always seen choosing a way of life as a kind of prison, where you construct bars to hold yourself in by saying 'to achieve the goal I've set I can do this, but I can't do that, I'll be rewarded if I do this, I'll be punished if I do that'.

That kind of thinking always seems to blow up in my face...

But at the same time I'm appreciative that it gives some semblance of social resonance to join in the fray and choose who you will always be. At the same time I don't think it can be called 'living' if you never allow yourself to change...
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  #50  
Old 28-08-2021, 12:07 PM
Legrand
Posts: n/a
 
Someone once said to me:

''If you follow only one way, you will follow that way instead of simply living''



Antoine
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