Christianity / Being saved

Originally Posted by Honza

The alternative is that Jesus is not the Messiah

but he said he was. so for that to be true, either jesus was claiming falsely to be the messiah, or his words in the bible are made up. i'd say most people tend to choose the latter and never the former, as they like jesus as a teacher for themselves and would rather believe the words were changed than to believe jesus himself actually believed himself to be the messiah. i think the more likely thing is jesus did believe himself to be the messiah or at least claimed to be. the jews did not think so though but his followers did

Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah.
Acts 5:42

Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.
Luke 2:11

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
Matthew 15:16-17

Originally Posted by Spiritual_Light

I am using my own discernment and intuition to help guide me.

that's the best way to me too. find out for ourselves how to be more attuned with love.

[Spiritual_Light]

So, as I said at the start of the thread, I am quite spiritual. Over the last few years other than learning and acquiring new knowledge, I have also been learning to use Angel cards to do readings for myself and family, with very good results. One of the decks I have is an angel answers deck. Basically you ask the angels questions and use the cards to get your answer.

Very recently I asked the angels about the Gnostic gospels to clarify whether there is truth to them, particularly with gospels such as the gospel of Thomas. Now before I tell you the answers, for me personally, I read the Gnostic gospels and thought there were some definite things in there that can be definitely considered as similar to what is known and understood in spirituality/spiritualism, but also equally there were parts that felt very much not similar as well.

I have wondered for ages whether the the Gnostic gospels are truthful and have genuine hidden truths. I researched and meditated but couldn't really come up with the answer, other than what I read about them being rejected because they were a mixture of spiritual beliefs that were not consistent with the other gospels in the new testament for various reasons. So I decided to ask the angels using these deck of cards, and the answer I consistently get is unlikely and no. But when I ask about the new testament from the bible, whether there is any truth, I get the answer yes. Yet, I know from experience, that not all of what I've come to experience spiritually can be explained from the bible, yet it does appear there is some genuine truth to it, even if it doesn't appear to cover all the things we wish to learn spiritually. Make from that what you will.

Edit: I forgot to add, that I did also ask the angel cards whether we can be saved from our sin by believing and having faith in Jesus, and the answer I got from them was: it's up to you! I asked at least three times, reframing the question slightly differently and got the same answer each time. So it appears the angels will not answer that one. I guess it's for us to figure out using freewill. Again, make from that what you will.

I expect that a lot of people who feel they can't renounce Christianity, and I am not necessarily suggesting one should, is that they equate it to renouncing Jesus and his teachings. Personally, I make no such equivalence. But then I feel no need to renounce Christianity as some sort of monolithic entity either. Sounds like you are on the right track. I don't know much about angel cards but would doubt they have any sort of oracle power. Perhaps they just help one to hear and interpret that oracle that is already inside of them. Which as oracles go, relatively speaking, is probably one of the better ones. That said, my old daily Dilbert desk calendar had a similar effect. Both made me feel good as well.
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[Spiritual_Light]

Originally Posted by ketzer

I expect that a lot of people who feel they can't renounce Christianity, and I am not necessarily suggesting one should, is that they equate it to renouncing Jesus and his teachings. Personally, I make no such equivalence. But then I feel no need to renounce Christianity as some sort of monolithic entity either. Sounds like you are on the right track. I don't know much about angel cards but would doubt they have any sort of oracle power. Perhaps they just help one to hear and interpret that oracle that is already inside of them. Which as oracles go, relatively speaking, is probably one of the better ones. That said, my old daily Dilbert desk calendar had a similar effect. Both made me feel good as well.
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Yes, I like to keep an open mind and not reject things because some people find flaws and faults and inconsistencies. I think it has its value in truth, as with other beliefs.

The cards I am using are Angel Oracle cards - the same used by psychic mediums who do readings. Whether you believe they are truthful or not, my experience has been that they are a very useful tool, with very accurate answers.

Originally Posted by Spiritual_Light

Yes, I like to keep an open mind and not reject things because some people find flaws and faults and inconsistencies. I think it has its value in truth, as with other beliefs.

The cards I am using are Angel Oracle cards - the same used by psychic mediums who do readings. Whether you believe they are truthful or not, my experience has been that they are a very useful tool, with very accurate answers.

I don't discount the possibility your cards could be giving you the truth, I only question whether they may be drawing that truth from down deep within you. Either way, if it is the truth they are presenting you, then it is good to become aware of it, regardless of where it is being drawn from.

i think truth is a result of experiences plus contemplating them
understanding more
so i would say it comes from ourself