Trials

[Azu]

Trials is a brief account of my journeys in trying to be vegetarian. Such journeys took place thrice in a personal lifetime without much success.

In each trial, I attempted to abstain from eating meat for nearly a month. With each trial, as the weeks ensued, I felt increasingly weaker and somewhat malnourished until I decided to quit vegetarianism.

In philosophy, Trials was my spiritual attempt to advocate against animal cruelty that has been historically and to date done in the form of butchering animals alive. Alongside, it is that I'm pro animal welfare.

However, an integral part of human survival, evolution and living is the ability to eat meat, including such nutrients as iron and protein. I would be reluctant to use protein pills from pharmaceutical shops for they are costly and the possibility that they could be clandestinely mixed with drugs and harmful chemicals.

Trials has been not only my spiritual attempts with such failures - they constitute my lifelong experiences in which I come to evaluate my choices and their outcomes, both imagined and actual.

[Lucky 1]

Originally Posted by Azu

Trials is a brief account of my journeys in trying to be vegetarian. Such journeys took place thrice in a personal lifetime without much success.

In each trial, I attempted to abstain from eating meat for nearly a month. With each trial, as the weeks ensued, I felt increasingly weaker and somewhat malnourished until I decided to quit vegetarianism.

In philosophy, Trials was my spiritual attempt to advocate against animal cruelty that has been historically and to date done in the form of butchering animals alive. Alongside, it is that I'm pro animal welfare.

However, an integral part of human survival, evolution and living is the ability to eat meat, including such nutrients as iron and protein. I would be reluctant to use protein pills from pharmaceutical shops for they are costly and the possibility that they could be clandestinely mixed with drugs and harmful chemicals.

Trials has been not only my spiritual attempts with such failures - they constitute my lifelong experiences in which I come to evaluate my choices and their outcomes, both imagined and actual.

Unfortunately your "vegetarian trial" ran smack into the scientific fact that the human species is an omnivore and made to eat a bit of everything....it is simply who we are.

Your experience sounds like most peoples experience with attempted vegetarianism......including mine .....they just don't feel good.....they feel weak....they lose weight....etc.

My experience is that only a limited number of the population does ok with vegetarianism and even a smaller number with outright veganism.

[Azu]

That's interesting.

Glad that I'm not alone.

[Debrah]

Originally Posted by Lucky 1

Unfortunately your "vegetarian trial" ran smack into the scientific fact that the human species is an omnivore and made to eat a bit of everything....it is simply who we are.

Your experience sounds like most peoples experience with attempted vegetarianism......including mine .....they just don't feel good.....they feel weak....they lose weight....etc.

My experience is that only a limited number of the population does ok with vegetarianism and even a smaller number with outright veganism.

I disagree on pretty much everything you said. We aren't omnivores. If we were, meat and dairy wouldn't have such negative effects on our bodies. Within two hours of eating it, inflammation begins to set in. It subsides over the next few hours, but then you eat more meat and it starts all over.

What's more, people suffering from heart disease or some cancers or numerous other killer diseases, see their symptoms reversed and they return to good health when they quit eating animal products. That would be why Texas Midland Memorial Hospital began actively encouraging patients to chose the vegan options on the menu. They also now give classes to staff, patients and whomever wants to learn, on how to incorporate a vegan diet into their lifestyle.

When people feel like the OP was saying, it's more likely a lack of sufficient calories. An assortment of fruits, veggies, legumes and nuts will give you all the nutrients you need, including protein and with one exception, B12. But that is a matter of 3 tablets a week.

There are numerous pro athletes who are now choosing a vegan diet. They find that their recovery is greatly improved after strenuous workouts, they feel stronger and healthier. In fact, Kendrick Farris, America's strongest weightlifter and whom represented the USA in the Olympics in 2016, has been following a vegan diet for years.

And in the ten years that I've been vegan, the numbers in Canada have grown from less than 1% to about 10% according to a Dalhousie University study done recently. Israel claims 13% as vegan these days and in 2016, the turnout for an animal rights march was 30,000 in Tel Aviv. Australian vegans have mobilized public sentiment to cause their government to shut their live transport market down for at least the summer months, by virtue of arousing people to the cruelty of it. And that will expand until live transport is shut down permanently. This is a social justice movement that is growing around the world.

This video will explain why I don't believe we are omnivores.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4NsMiOMmCY

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Debrah

I disagree on pretty much everything you said. We aren't omnivores.

Check online, there are all sorts of articles on the subject, even from holistic health sites, confirming that human beings are omnivores. But it's immaterial. If we were raised by drunks and became alcoholics in our 20s, it doesn't change the fact that the decision to get sober is a healthy and positive life-choice.

EDIT: Okay and yes, some of that was in fact autobiographical. But my dear mother bless her didn't drink, I need to make that much clear!

[Debrah]

Originally Posted by Baile

Check online, there are all sorts of articles on the subject, even from holistic health sites, confirming that human beings are omnivores. But it's immaterial. If we were raised by drunks and became alcoholics in our 20s, it doesn't change the fact that the decision to get sober is a healthy and positive life-choice.

EDIT: Okay and yes, some of that was in fact autobiographical. But my dear mother bless her didn't drink, I need to make that much clear!

I'm not surprised you found posts that say we are omnivores. This is a habit that is very hard to break and people will 'got to the mat' for the sake of their food. Because it's not solely a question of avoiding starvation. It also incorporates nutrition, history, habits, culture and family traditions.

We may survive eating meat, but when you look at the effects it has on our tissue (inflammation that only subsides as we've completed metabolizing it) , plus all the physiological points (teeth shape, gastric acids, etc.), none of that says eating meat is what our bodies should be doing.

Dr. Greger does a good job of explaining how your body reacts when you eat meat.

https://nutritionfacts.org/2012/09/2...-inflammation/

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Debrah

I'm not surprised you found posts that say we are omnivores.

Debrah, there are holistic health sites that say that.

Not that it matters. Like I said previously, the only relevant observation is that material thinkers and self-serving individuals are incapable of and unwilling to elevate these discussions into the realm of true soul-spiritual conversation. Rather, they use these sort of banal "facts" as an excuse to justify their nature-killing and environment-destroying actions and lifestyles.

Think about it: we go back and forth here, having our little online tiffs about "whether or not omnivores." Correct or incorrect, this "fact" is irrelevant to a true discussion -- a spiritual discussion -- on the evolution of human-soul-spirit consciousness and karmic/moral responsibility. Because the real and actual "facts" are that tens of millions of animals each day continue to be tortured just so the unconscious and uncaring masses can enjoy their 99 cent burgers. And in the process the environment -- this planet, our home -- is being decimated. People with spiritual understanding, see this and are trying somehow to take responsibility, trying to change all of this, trying to wake others up. For everyone else though, Nero fiddles and the planet burns while they blithely stuff their faces.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Lucky 1

Your experience sounds like most peoples experience with attempted vegetarianism......they lose weight.

I lost 95 lbs and naturally leveled off at my high school weight... well okay 10-15 heavier than that, due to all that accumulated life baggage probably. But I look pretty sharp, baby! And given 70% of people are overweight and 30% are obese... yeah, add a few salads to those meals you're eating people and lose some weight, it's a GOOD thing.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Lucky 1

My experience is that only a limited number of the population does ok with vegetarianism and even a smaller number with outright veganism.

Your experience Lucky? And what's that? You're a hunter. My buddy in the 90s was a hunter. We're not buddies anymore because all his buddies are hunters, and I'm not one. That's how life rolls.

Your experience then is you live in an area where people hunt, and all your best buds are no doubt hunters and steak-eaters. In other words, that's your level of experience and expertise on the subject of vegan diets.

Seriously man, I couldn't even type the words, "From my experience with hunters..." because I couldn't keep a straight face. I'm as much an expert on hunters as you are on eating a vegan-only diet for 12 years.

[Altair]

Something to consider.. vegetarianism has been around for thousands of years. In some places (Asian countries) it's been the norm for a long time, probably thanks in large part to a handful of people that attained something spiritually profound, and people saw that and with it a change of diet occurred on a larger scale. One can only hope a few people here and there in Europe and the US could reach that level and it would transform society and have lasting impact for centuries/millennia to come.

Also in other places such as the Middle East and Northern Africa vegetarian food was/is the norm because meat was/is expensive for a lot of people. Now of course most people here are not ethical vegetarians, they eat fish or meat if given the opportunity but many were/are practically vegetarians. I have been to such countries and it's very easy to get all your needs there on a veg diet. Europe has a history of vegetarian groups as well. A few people here and there might not do well on a vegetarian diet, but to say only a limited number do well is a huge stretch. Many people throughout history have lived healthy and reached old age with this diet. It's much more parsimonious to assume that it is a limited number that don't do well..

As some of you may know.. species, humans included, change much faster than most of us assume. In a XX thousands of years many of us have become lactose tolerant. In a matter of centuries we've gotten much taller on average and our teeth have changed, many people now have overbite. We change... as is our 'need' for meat and our capacity to live without it. Nature isn't fixed.. it's a work in progress..