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  #1  
Old 08-01-2020, 08:36 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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On Conception and Abortions --- From A Spiritist Perspective

I recently attended a presentation at the United Nations Enlightenment Society that was given by a medical doctor (cardiologist) who is also a physicist and a Spiritist. He gave us the same presentation that he made at the World Psychiatric Association in Jerusalem in December , 2019. One of his points was that disincarnate spirits sometimes linger after physical death and can influence the mental and physical health of corporeal beings. He noted that communication with disincarnate beings is possible and this is consistent with the well-documented readings of Edgar Cayce.

Spiritists believe in reincarnation but it is not necessary to believe that in order to relate to what has reportedly been communicated by spirits regarding the nature of birth and the consequences of abortion. The following are quotes from a significant Spiritist book, "The Spirits' Book" published by Allan Kardec. It would be interesting to hear how the ideas presented here resonate with posters here on this very controversial subject.

Keep in mind that I have never really seen much information about exactly when "life" begins with a child, so use these ideas as a starting point for discussion. If anyone has any additional or contrarian information, feel free to post. I am presenting these Spiritist ideas for discussion purposes only. I am not presenting these as facts.

1. The union begins at conception but is only complete at the moment of birth. From the moment of conception, the spirit designated to inhabit a given body is connected to it by a fluidic tie, which gets tighter and tighter up to the instant the child is born.

2. Since the ties that bind it are very tenuous and easy to break, they may actually be severed by the will of a spirit that recoils from the trial it has chosen. In that case, the child does not survive.

3. (In reference to children who die shortly after birth) These cases are often meant as a trial for the parents.

4. Once incarnate, a spirit cannot regret a choice of which it has no awareness.

5. If it thinks the burden is beyond its strength to endure, it may resort to suicide.

6. At the moment of conception, confusion begins to envelop the spirit and it is thereby warned that the time has come to start a new existence.This confusion increases until the time of birth. As the moment of birth approaches, its ideas are erased, as well as its memory of the past, which it is no longer conscious of once it returns to life on the earth. But this memory returns little by little when it reenters the spirit state.

7. Spirits find themselves in a new existence and must learn to use their bodily instruments.

8. The spirit who must animate it exists outside of it, so to speak. Strictly speaking, the fetus has no soul since the current incarnation is only in the process of being accomplished. Nevertheless, the fetus is linked to that soul that it will have.

9. (Regarding abortion) A crime is always committed when the law of God is transgressed. The mother or any other person involved always commits a crime upon taking the life of a child before its birth because it prevents a soul from experiencing the trials for which the unborn's body was to been the instrument.

10. (Regarding the life of the mother at risk) It is better to sacrifice the being who does not yet exist than the being who already exists.

11. (Regarding the fetus) You should see the will of God and the divine handiwork in everything, and not treat lightly the things you ought to respect. Why not respect all the works of creation, which are sometimes incomplete due to the will of the Creator? This is one of the divine designs that no one is called to judge.

NOTE: Since the specific subject of abortion after a rape was not specifically addressed, I asked that question at a Spiritist meeting. The response was that, since the trauma of rape could significantly impact the health of the mother (mental for sure and conceivably physical as well), statement #10 above applies.
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  #2  
Old 08-01-2020, 08:53 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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As for abortions, it is such a controversial subject that I generally avoid discussing it.

I do not like playing "God" and generally let 'nature' play out her course in such matters.

As for the above list, I do believe the list to be inspirational and of sound advice.
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  #3  
Old 09-01-2020, 10:19 AM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
I recently attended a presentation at the United Nations Enlightenment Society that was given by a medical doctor (cardiologist) who is also a physicist and a Spiritist. He gave us the same presentation that he made at the World Psychiatric Association in Jerusalem in December , 2019. One of his points was that disincarnate spirits sometimes linger after physical death and can influence the mental and physical health of corporeal beings. He noted that communication with disincarnate beings is possible and this is consistent with the well-documented readings of Edgar Cayce.

Spiritists believe in reincarnation but it is not necessary to believe that in order to relate to what has reportedly been communicated by spirits regarding the nature of birth and the consequences of abortion. The following are quotes from a significant Spiritist book, "The Spirits' Book" published by Allan Kardec. It would be interesting to hear how the ideas presented here resonate with posters here on this very controversial subject.

Keep in mind that I have never really seen much information about exactly when "life" begins with a child, so use these ideas as a starting point for discussion. If anyone has any additional or contrarian information, feel free to post. I am presenting these Spiritist ideas for discussion purposes only. I am not presenting these as facts.

1. The union begins at conception but is only complete at the moment of birth. From the moment of conception, the spirit designated to inhabit a given body is connected to it by a fluidic tie, which gets tighter and tighter up to the instant the child is born.

2. Since the ties that bind it are very tenuous and easy to break, they may actually be severed by the will of a spirit that recoils from the trial it has chosen. In that case, the child does not survive.

3. (In reference to children who die shortly after birth) These cases are often meant as a trial for the parents.

4. Once incarnate, a spirit cannot regret a choice of which it has no awareness.

5. If it thinks the burden is beyond its strength to endure, it may resort to suicide.

6. At the moment of conception, confusion begins to envelop the spirit and it is thereby warned that the time has come to start a new existence.This confusion increases until the time of birth. As the moment of birth approaches, its ideas are erased, as well as its memory of the past, which it is no longer conscious of once it returns to life on the earth. But this memory returns little by little when it reenters the spirit state.

7. Spirits find themselves in a new existence and must learn to use their bodily instruments.

8. The spirit who must animate it exists outside of it, so to speak. Strictly speaking, the fetus has no soul since the current incarnation is only in the process of being accomplished. Nevertheless, the fetus is linked to that soul that it will have.

9. (Regarding abortion) A crime is always committed when the law of God is transgressed. The mother or any other person involved always commits a crime upon taking the life of a child before its birth because it prevents a soul from experiencing the trials for which the unborn's body was to been the instrument.

10. (Regarding the life of the mother at risk) It is better to sacrifice the being who does not yet exist than the being who already exists.

11. (Regarding the fetus) You should see the will of God and the divine handiwork in everything, and not treat lightly the things you ought to respect. Why not respect all the works of creation, which are sometimes incomplete due to the will of the Creator? This is one of the divine designs that no one is called to judge.

NOTE: Since the specific subject of abortion after a rape was not specifically addressed, I asked that question at a Spiritist meeting. The response was that, since the trauma of rape could significantly impact the health of the mother (mental for sure and conceivably physical as well), statement #10 above applies.



When does life begin....
I personally believe life has no beginning nor end.

Regarding the above Quotes they are just the ideas from the Author of the Book, we all see things differently and my opinion on abortion would probably upset some so it's best if I keep my opinions to myself
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Old 09-01-2020, 03:48 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
As for abortions, it is such a controversial subject that I generally avoid discussing it.

I do not like playing "God" and generally let 'nature' play out her course in such matters.

As for the above list, I do believe the list to be inspirational and of sound advice.

You are correct that abortion is indeed a very controversial subject and that is why I introduced it now that I have more information on various aspects of it. As you indicated, the above list does seem to be "inspirational and of sound advice".

Continuing this, ..........

During my near death experience (NDE) many years ago when I emerged symptom-free from a three day "irreversible coma". I had an out-of-body experience and vividly recall the "fluid connection" between the body and the spirit as the Spiritists state. In addition, I also vividly recall the spirit (for lack of a better word) slowly descending towards the body as the decision to return was being made. There are other NDEers who have reported similar things. I am not unique in this respect.

In addition, I have a friend who is an advanced meditation teacher and she is one of the rare people whom I've met who actually recalls vividly the process of being born. She indicated that the "fluid connection" between the body and the spirit during the period between conception and birth was consistent with her own experience. I discussed this with her at length face-to-face on Monday of this week (January 6th, 2020) before posting.

Lastly, Dr. Michael Newton used hypnotism-regression techniques in which he documents a subset of the memories of many of his subjects prior to birth and these are consistent with the Spiritist perspective though it does not go into as much detail regarding the period between conception and birth. The memories are remarkably consistent. His book, Journey of Souls, is quite illuminating.

I have encountered many people who categorically reject some of the Spiritist views presented here because it contradicts their belief system yet, when I try to discuss details with them, they invariably offer little substance to support their positions. There are indeed other ways of looking at traditional belief systems, including those that don't believe in reincarnation.
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Old 09-01-2020, 03:52 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
When does life begin....
I personally believe life has no beginning nor end.

Regarding the above Quotes they are just the ideas from the Author of the Book, we all see things differently and my opinion on abortion would probably upset some so it's best if I keep my opinions to myself

FWIW (For what it's worth), the ideas from the book are reportedly from the perspective of disincarnate spirits.

Ramana Maharshi stated that "the reincarnating ego is of the lower planes". Implied in that is the answer to your question about where it all "begins".

When abortion was brought up with Ramana, he simply replied that people are going to die one way or another.

If you recall the epic Mahabharata of India, Ganga drowned her first few children as soon as they were born as they were cursed to take a human life and she made it as brief as possible. That provided a lot of food for meditation as it was very troublesome when I first read it


Feel free to bring up your opinions on this subject. This is indeed controversial.
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  #6  
Old 09-01-2020, 05:18 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
You are correct that abortion is indeed a very controversial subject and that is why I introduced it now that I have more information on various aspects of it. As you indicated, the above list does seem to be "inspirational and of sound advice".

Continuing this, ..........

During my near death experience (NDE) many years ago when I emerged symptom-free from a three day "irreversible coma". I had an out-of-body experience and vividly recall the "fluid connection" between the body and the spirit as the Spiritists state. In addition, I also vividly recall the spirit (for lack of a better word) slowly descending towards the body as the decision to return was being made. There are other NDEers who have reported similar things. I am not unique in this respect.

In addition, I have a friend who is an advanced meditation teacher and she is one of the rare people whom I've met who actually recalls vividly the process of being born. She indicated that the "fluid connection" between the body and the spirit during the period between conception and birth was consistent with her own experience. I discussed this with her at length face-to-face on Monday of this week (January 6th, 2020) before posting.

Lastly, Dr. Michael Newton used hypnotism-regression techniques in which he documents a subset of the memories of many of his subjects prior to birth and these are consistent with the Spiritist perspective though it does not go into as much detail regarding the period between conception and birth. The memories are remarkably consistent. His book, Journey of Souls, is quite illuminating.

I have encountered many people who categorically reject some of the Spiritist views presented here because it contradicts their belief system yet, when I try to discuss details with them, they invariably offer little substance to support their positions. There are indeed other ways of looking at traditional belief systems, including those that don't believe in reincarnation.
In meditation, I used to watch what look like spirits come to the person meditating. As the meditation was ending, I would watch them leave.

My question is "How does anybody know who these body forms really are"?
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Old 09-01-2020, 05:52 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
In meditation, I used to watch what look like spirits come to the person meditating. As the meditation was ending, I would watch them leave.

My question is "How does anybody know who these body forms really are"?

Your question, once again, is right on target. In one of my dialogues with leadville, it was mentioned that spirits are not "omniscient" and one should weigh and measure what is being communicated. As you indicated, does anyone really know who these spirit-body forms really are?
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Old 09-01-2020, 06:40 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
Your question, once again, is right on target. In one of my dialogues with leadville, it was mentioned that spirits are not "omniscient" and one should weigh and measure what is being communicated. As you indicated, does anyone really know who these spirit-body forms really are?
Most people meditate with their eyes closed making it difficult to ascertain exactly what they report as 'seeing'. I meditate with my eyes open and what I see generally is some interesting things. People used to go to seances and saw things with their physical eye. Now, most people have their eyes closed: a completely different experience.
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        Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
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Old 10-01-2020, 11:52 AM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
FWIW (For what it's worth), the ideas from the book are reportedly from the perspective of disincarnate spirits.

Ramana Maharshi stated that "the reincarnating ego is of the lower planes". Implied in that is the answer to your question about where it all "begins".

When abortion was brought up with Ramana, he simply replied that people are going to die one way or another.

If you recall the epic Mahabharata of India, Ganga drowned her first few children as soon as they were born as they were cursed to take a human life and she made it as brief as possible. That provided a lot of food for meditation as it was very troublesome when I first read it


Feel free to bring up your opinions on this subject. This is indeed controversial.


Yes I know the Quotes are supposedly from Spirits, but then you will get different messages from other recipients. I personally don't put to much value to these types of things but that's just me
I have had some really good messages which have been 100% accurate while attending a Spiritualist Church and their Healing Session are enjoyable but I am still dubious regarding Books etc. I suppose it's because most of the time I look for personal experiences rather than the experiences of others.

You definitely do not want to listen to my views on Abortion, a Friend was a SRN in a Private Abortion Clinic and was so traumatized by what she saw and was expected to do that she had to leave and receive Mental Health Treatment. It broke my heart listening to what went on. It sounded like a Slaughter House....
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Old 10-01-2020, 01:38 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
Most people meditate with their eyes closed making it difficult to ascertain exactly what they report as 'seeing'. I meditate with my eyes open and what I see generally is some interesting things. People used to go to seances and saw things with their physical eye. Now, most people have their eyes closed: a completely different experience.
Something else I would notice is that another face would appear over the person's face I would be looking act.
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        Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
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