Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Most Anything > Lounge

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 11-05-2020, 01:30 PM
Elfin
Posts: n/a
 
And just to make clear on here, I do not wish to keep alive the memory of any war. Any war. They are all abhorrant . But I cannot ever ignore the sacrifice and human suffering that is coupled with these wars . And that is what makes me human. I cannot and will not ever forget those sacrifices. Sorry if I offend anyone but this was my thread . There is so much suffering too in all areas / walks of life that I also find very hard hard to deal with. Let's talk about rape... Torture... Murder too. I have experienced all of these too during my life . But please.. allow me this one moment to remember my Grandma.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-05-2020, 01:42 PM
Elfin
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
So you feel that this experience may give you a better understanding of what a waste war is then if you had not gone through it?
Hi Ketzer. War determines the biggest waste of human life incomprehensible to the human mind.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-05-2020, 01:53 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfin
V.E day, this year , will always remain etched in my memory. Across the road every household had hung bunting in their windows and across fences. And from somewhere close by a very loudspeaker was playing all of the wartime songs, all day long. Yet there were no other celebrations to be seen. No street parties. No voices could be heard, save for the songs . I went outside several times to listen to the music. Not a single person to be seen all day long because of lockdown. The town like a ghost town... No people, no traffic , just the bunting blowing gently in the breeze and the haunting sound of the war songs. It made the occasion so much more poingent and very very fitting . All in all it was quite beautiful.
It sounds very beautiful. Is it not both perplexing and amazing how such feelings of beauty can arise from remembering such horror, misery, loss and grief? It seems everybody who experiences war, whether on or off the battlefield, is changed by it in some way, yet none in exactly the same way.

I always remember this quote featured in the Ken Burns documentary series on the U.S. Civil War.
“We have shared the incommunicable experience of war, we have felt, we still feel, the passion of life to its top. In our youth our hearts were touched with fire.” ― Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.


.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-05-2020, 02:09 PM
Elfin
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
It sounds very beautiful. Is it not both perplexing and amazing how such feelings of beauty can arise from remembering such horror, misery, loss and grief? It seems everybody who experiences war, whether on or off the battlefield, is changed by it in some way, yet none in exactly the same way.

I always remember this quote featured in the Ken Burns documentary series on the U.S. Civil War.
“We have shared the incommunicable experience of war, we have felt, we still feel, the passion of life to its top. In our youth our hearts were touched with fire.” ― Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.


.
Yes it's beautiful in a haunting way.. as though all those lost souls were walking the streets instead of the people. It was appropriate. It was apt . It was perfect . And when I said in first instance "lest we never forgot" .... I meant just that. I cannot even begin to imagine sending my precious boys off to war... Knowing full well they may never come back. I cannot ever or even imagine the full horror of those young boys...and what they went through and experienced. Many lied about their age in order to take home the king's shilling. How proud were they .. to put on uniform and parade in front of family and friends , only to be thrown into the bowels of hell.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-05-2020, 02:16 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfin
Hi Ketzer. War determines the biggest waste of human life incomprehensible to the human mind.

Yes, I completely understand and share that sentiment. Yet, there is a part of me that has slowly formed over the years that feels that no human life has ever been wasted, nor could it ever be. Not something that would or should ever drive my actions, but one that occasionally drives my feelings. I like having it because it seems to allow me, when I stand back and look at things from a distance, to see the beauty in what is otherwise just so much ugliness. It is not a kind of beauty that anyone could ever seek to create, as trying to do so would only result in ugliness alone. It seems to be an emergent beauty that is just there, waiting to be noticed. Perhaps it is wrong to feel that way, but I can't seem to feel wrong about it.

.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-05-2020, 02:34 PM
Elfin
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Yes, I completely understand and share that sentiment. Yet, there is a part of me that has slowly formed over the years that feels that no human life has ever been wasted, nor could it ever be. Not something that would or should ever drive my actions, but one that occasionally drives my feelings. I like having it because it seems to allow me, when I stand back and look at things from a distance, to see the beauty in what is otherwise just so much ugliness. It is not a kind of beauty that anyone could ever seek to create, as trying to do so would only result in ugliness alone. It seems to be an emergent beauty that is just there, waiting to be noticed. Perhaps it is wrong to feel that way, but I can't seem to feel wrong about it.

.
Hi .. and yes you are are right in as much no waste to life . I do agree with that as I believe 100 percent that life goes on. We never die . The soul of oneself is infinite. Death is not an equation. On the other hand , however, at this moment in time we live a life as a human experience. We are given all of the human emotion. Fear, love, joy, hatred, greed, jealousy , and heartache. And we re act accordingly. I already know that when I depart this earth, and am born again I will have no recollection of my prescious children that I love more than life itself in this lifetime. That upsets me . But I also know I may have had many children during my lifetimes that I cannot recall . And it will be the same with the great wars. In my next life I will not ever recall this conversation with you.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-05-2020, 03:02 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfin
Yes it's beautiful in a haunting way.. as though all those lost souls were walking the streets instead of the people. It was appropriate. It was apt . It was perfect . And when I said in first instance "lest we never forgot" .... I meant just that. I cannot even begin to imagine sending my precious boys off to war... Knowing full well they may never come back. I cannot ever or even imagine the full horror of those young boys...and what they went through and experienced. Many lied about their age in order to take home the king's shilling. How proud were they .. to put on uniform and parade in front of family and friends , only to be thrown into the bowels of hell.

Hitler and Hirohito sought to create a world of ugliness, where a human life would have no inherent value, and would only have the value that they placed on it. A world where mankind would divide itself and the strong would crush, enslave, and exterminate those they deemed of lesser worth and value. These were the values they sought to impose upon the human race.
I don’t know if those lost souls were walking the streets or not, but they were walking the streets in your mind. As they walked past you thought about your own boys and remembered how much you love them, and you thought about all of those other boys, and the mothers who loved them, who all endured so much sorrow and loss. All these years later and here you are finding beauty, meaning, and communion with those human lives, most of whom have long since passed away. Others rejected those evil values and fought and sacrificed their lives and the lives of those they loved to ensure that those values they sought to impose on the world would not come to pass. If nothing else, at least for that moment, in your mind and heart, the values espoused by the Nazis and Imperial Japan were soundly defeated once again, it would seem those lost souls are still helping to win the war.

.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-05-2020, 03:24 PM
Elfin
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Hitler and Hirohito sought to create a world of ugliness, where a human life would have no inherent value, and would only have the value that they placed on it. A world where mankind would divide itself and the strong would crush, enslave, and exterminate those they deemed of lesser worth and value. These were the values they sought to impose upon the human race.
I don’t know if those lost souls were walking the streets or not, but they were walking the streets in your mind. As they walked past you thought about your own boys and remembered how much you love them, and you thought about all of those other boys, and the mothers who loved them, who all endured so much sorrow and loss. All these years later and here you are finding beauty, meaning, and communion with those human lives, most of whom have long since passed away. Others rejected those evil values and fought and sacrificed their lives and the lives of those they loved to ensure that those values they sought to impose on the world would not come to pass. If nothing else, at least for that moment, in your mind and heart, the values espoused by the Nazis and Imperial Japan were soundly defeated once again, it would seem those lost souls are still helping to win the war.

.
Lovely way to express. Yes. My own boys. The boys lost . And the boys left behind, as my grandma had to leave 3 young boys. And because of my empathy I do not only focus on my own country with its losses. There were many countries. But the German people also suffered great loss too. They were also victims of this war which many fail to realise or acknowledge.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-05-2020, 03:29 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfin
Hi .. and yes you are are right in as much no waste to life . I do agree with that as I believe 100 percent that life goes on. We never die . The soul of oneself is infinite. Death is not an equation. On the other hand , however, at this moment in time we live a life as a human experience. We are given all of the human emotion. Fear, love, joy, hatred, greed, jealousy , and heartache. And we re act accordingly. I already know that when I depart this earth, and am born again I will have no recollection of my prescious children that I love more than life itself in this lifetime. That upsets me . But I also know I may have had many children during my lifetimes that I cannot recall . And it will be the same with the great wars. In my next life I will not ever recall this conversation with you.
Memories are strange things. Researches can invent and place memories into the mind of a grad student (those perennial poor research subjects). Psychology tells us that many of the 'facts' of the things we do remember may have changed in our minds so much over the years that those memories would not be recognizable if compared to a picture, recording, or film. Yet somehow those memories remain a part of us and shape who we feel deep down inside that we are. Whether in the past or in a past life, we are usually so busy with living that we seldom bring to mind all those old memories, yet I expect in one way or another, they are there in the present moment with us. Perhaps it is a good thing memories are not exact records of past events, maybe all those details might get in the way of what was really important to remember.

.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-05-2020, 03:37 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfin
Lovely way to express. Yes. My own boys. The boys lost . And the boys left behind, as my grandma had to leave 3 young boys. And because of my empathy I do not only focus on my own country with its losses. There were many countries. But the German people also suffered great loss too. They were also victims of this war which many fail to realise or acknowledge.
"They were also victims of this war which many fail to realise or acknowledge.'

It is I think important and comforting for many to draw clear lines between good and evil, and appropriately categorize the world. But it becomes both dangerous and counterproductive when we start placing people into those categories. People, all people are capable of committing evil, ideologies can be evil, actions can be evil, but people, souls, can never truly be evil. Once we start believing they can, and we can know who is and isn't, is when the cycle starts to repeat itself.

.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums