a simple question about reincarnation

[Altair]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

The above is not an easy pill to swallow for those who are buried in suffering.

Even less so for all the people who suffer not because of their own mistakes but because of environmental circumstance, health, or genetics. Often not the things they have control over. Many children died in their early days, many women died giving birth, many people have died meaninglessly, without anything to ''learn''. It wasn't any soul that saved the day and made life better, but science, improved hygiene, and medicine.

That's not even getting into all the flies that end up in a spider's web and we're shown that life isn't about what spiritual traditions think it's about.
Hey, I just killed a flea that was on my screen, just so you all know. I must be punished very harshly now.. oh how I dread the day the soul will judge me!!

Of course, going with what you wrote down one has to assume there is something to 'learn' from all of it, which I believe is simply not the case.
I can play along to try and work my way through it here but I have to say I do not believe what you believe.

But thanks for your explanations and taking your time. I do appreciate that. :)

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Altair

Of course, going with what you wrote down one has to assume there is something to 'learn' from all of it, which I believe is simply not the case.
I can play along to try and work my way through it here but I have to say I do not believe what you believe.

But thanks for your explanations and taking your time. I do appreciate that. :)

I would add that if we had this conversation 500 years ago or even 100 years ago none of you would talk about all those concepts and beliefs. You do it now because you are influenced by your changing environment, and some beliefs are able to fulfil religious niches on the globalizing world. Many popular beliefs these days are a result of this changing environment that people live in. You think it clicks and makes sense to you, but to me it does not.

People may claim they *know* because they ''experience'' but then people have ''experienced'' all sorts of things. Some claim to be Indigo's from another galaxy and others claim humans evolved on Jupiter, because a spiritual being told them so. Put 100 people into a month long, Hindu styled retreat and they will experience ''Hindu truths'' just as the vikings would hear Thor.

We must not believe in a thing said merely because it is said; nor traditions because they have been handed down from antiquity; nor rumors, as such; nor writing by sages, because sages wrote them; nor fancies that we may suspected to have been inspired in us by a Deva (that is, in presumed spiritual inspiration); nor from inferences drawn from some haphazard assumption we may have made; nor because of what seems an analogical necessity; nor on the mere authority of our teachers or masters. But we are to believe when the writing, doctrine, or saying is corroborated by our own reason and consciousness.

Do not believe merely because you have heard, but when you believed of your consciousness, then to act accordingly and abundantly.

Paraphrased from a talk given by Guatama to students.

I join you in your skepticism. A thinking person can be no less.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

We must not believe in a thing said merely because it is said; nor traditions because they have been handed down from antiquity;

Makes sense in India. If I go and talk with a Christian or Muslim, or a rainforest shaman or random Aussie physicist I'll get a different take on things. ;-)

Indian beliefs have been marketed and commercialized through New Age books, retreats, meditation centres, missionaries (Krishnamurti, Vivekananda, Prahpbupada, etc.). It's gotten so big now that many people think it is ''universal'', and people's *spiritual experiences* are shaped accordingly. If Spiritual Forums were to exist in 13th century England we'd all be interpreting every experience in a Christian light.

Originally Posted by Altair

Makes sense in India. If I go and talk with a Christian or Muslim, or a rainforest shaman or random Aussie physicist I'll get a different take on things. ;-)

Indian beliefs have been marketed and commercialized through New Age books, retreats, meditation centres, missionaries (Krishnamurti, Vivekananda, Prahpbupada, etc.). It's gotten so big now that many people think it is ''universal'', and people's *spiritual experiences* are shaped accordingly. If Spiritual Forums were to exist in 13th century England we'd all be interpreting every experience in a Christian light.

Seems moreso ever since the Beatles went there back in the sixties. They were greatly influenced as I recall. I am a conscious channel not by choice but by accident. Long story. At first I thought I was nuts. No. The area of interest is philosophy. When it begins a landscape of ideas rushes by so quickly it's hard to keep up. If I stop I'll not be able to recall later what I missed. Luckily I can type at more than 100wpm. When I write I consciously avoid using Sanskrit terms or many of the common identifiers. I try to use ordinary language. I feel strongly that we can study, experience spirituality in a generic way, free of any originating or influencing cultures.

My Christian friends chide me for speaking of Jesus out of Biblical context. I ask them what Jesus was doing before the first of the Hebrew scriptures was written. The point is why must we speak from within the boundaries of any certain "form".

in science a truth is accepted until some new information comes along and then maybe it will be replaced. I, too, subscribe to the idea of fluidity in truth; that there is a direct relationship between that and consciousness.

Lastly I do not believe in "magic", something from nothing. I feel that the idea of "nothing" is quite impossible. Is space empty? No. It is not. It is filled with all sorts of subtle energies and even relatively insubstantial physical particles. I believe that if a thing can happen then we can use our minds to understand the mechanics, the "why and how" of it. I don't like mysteries. I confess impatience with the idea that something must be taken on faith. Question everything!

I discovered that I have the ability to, using my hands, feel auras of other people. Indeed I can do this from any distance. It's as though they are standing right in front of me. I've run that one by my psychologist neighbor. He says "well you are more sensitive than most". Right but what, exactly, is this sensitivity? And psychic events? What is the medium through which they are sensed, travel? No. There have to be concrete answers to questions like this one. I try to find them.

Thanks for the honesty.

James

Originally Posted by bartholomew

We must not believe in a thing said merely because it is said; nor traditions because they have been handed down from antiquity; nor rumors, as such; nor writing by sages, because sages wrote them; nor fancies that we may suspected to have been inspired in us by a Deva (that is, in presumed spiritual inspiration); nor from inferences drawn from some haphazard assumption we may have made; nor because of what seems an analogical necessity; nor on the mere authority of our teachers or masters. But we are to believe when the writing, doctrine, or saying is corroborated by our own reason and consciousness.

Do not believe merely because you have heard, but when you believed of your consciousness, then to act accordingly and abundantly.

Paraphrased from a talk given by Guatama to students.

I join you in your skepticism. A thinking person can be no less.

The fuller version

Kalama Sutta: To the Kalamas (non Buddhist followers)


https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....065.than.html

Originally Posted by bartholomew

He says "well you are more sensitive than most". Right but what, exactly, is this sensitivity? And psychic events? What is the medium through which they are sensed, travel? No. There have to be concrete answers to questions like this one. I try to find them.

Another awe packed post, Bartholomew/James...

Good point, what is sensitivity...

JL

[SandraAnne]

How do you worry about the next life? Is this one already figured out? Do you know what you are in this one? All future is an illusion. Have you ever seen tomorrow? You'd do better to look very closely at this moment, the one happening now and ask how is it happening? Who is it happening to? Can you even find yourself? How is it working? How do you even know you have a body? All thoughts about a so called future are just Maya's distraction.

Originally Posted by janielee

Another awe packed post, Bartholomew/James...

Good point, what is sensitivity...

JL

In this context I think it is a degree of functionality on one or other of the Earth's subtle (spiritual) planes. This is a huge subject that is of great interest to the theorist. Every single human being on the planet is actually, literally, connected via these planes. This is perhaps the essence of what is so often (lightly) called "group think".

Originally Posted by SandraAnne

How do you worry about the next life? Is this one already figured out? Do you know what you are in this one? All future is an illusion. Have you ever seen tomorrow? You'd do better to look very closely at this moment, the one happening now and ask how is it happening? Who is it happening to? Can you even find yourself? How is it working? How do you even know you have a body? All thoughts about a so called future are just Maya's distraction.

Thanks for the reminder. More reasons to try for selflessness.