The weather

[BigJohn]

As for cooking....... I have a large fresnel lens I plan using to make a solar cooker. Most people in the world could afford the basic materials to make one but very little is being done to 'fix' a simple remedey as making cooking affordable.

[bobjob]

As I wrote earlier: "Solar panels make a valuable contribution to renewable energy but are the province of the wealthy. Those struggling just to survive week to week would find the capital outlay of a solar array impossible to finance. Changes need to reflect their situation and central government - or state - subsidies may be needed to help them."

Work on installing solar panels on one's van or home is hardly the province of those working pay check to pay check, often bringing up children and scratching to make ends meet. Not for them the luxury of having time or money to go to college to learn how to become a licensed contractor so they can save a few bucks they don't have in the first place......

Your Fresnel lens will work until the weather turns or it's night. Solar panels generate electricity that needs to be stored in electrical accumulators for when no power is being generated. A third-world village may be able to afford just such an installation if help is provided but even then it's a local issue and wouldn't do much to ameliorate the worst effects of climate change.

The issue of climate change is a global one. Local fixes and workarounds will help locally and can be invaluable. I don't disparage them but they don't have a global impact. Like it or not - probably not - governments and organisations will have to be involved the world over if climate change extremes are to be addressed. Even then this world will likely face decades of baked-in effects that will need the greatest ingenuity to deal with and concerted co-operation between nations.

[BigJohn]

The cost to a poor person to go to a Community College so as to be able to pass the Contractor's exam is, for the most part, nothing....... just time.

If one can master installing solar on a RV (like a class B) then they can surely can master that of a home.

As for poor people being able to acquire solar, they could work on the side installing solar so as to be able to buy their own solar.

I know of 2 chaps that were able to get 250 watt solar panels for $50.00 or less per panel. a 5KW system would be, based on those figures, $1000.00. Add in your controller, inverter, batteries, etc. and you have a working system.

As far as I am concerned about Solar, a lot of work has to be done before it should be installed. If that 'worked' had been done on existing homes, our electrical load requirements probably would be about 1/4 to 1/5 of what it is now.

[bobjob]

perpetually parochial.....

The problems humankind faces from global change are global and local changes to one's own tiny part of this world may help the individual but have a negligible effect globally.

Comparing the simple installation of low-voltage RV solar panels to those in a house installation is bizarre. And how pointless it is to suggest that if we'd anticipated the need for solar panels and prepared homes during construction years earlier. To use the hackneyed phrase "It is what it is." and folk have to work with what they've got.

Remember also that when individuals have solar schemes in their homes they may not leave the grid because their peak demand may not be totally met by their installation - sustained very cold or very hot conditions for example. That can happen even in Arizona!

They still need a supplier of electricity such as SRP or APS to generate it and maintain the infrastructure, costs that don't go down for the supplier when a customer stops using some or most of the electricity it used to use. But that customer still expects to dip in to the grid when necessary - that's the nature of all electricity generation.

When solar installations started appearing in large numbers in The Valley APS warned that the remaining, regular customers faced quickly increasing charges. That's because the total cost of supply isn't just down solely to generation costs. The latter may drop because fewer customers consume it but the supply grid maintenance costs don't.

How "couldn't-care-less" it is to increase the cost for the majority when you reduce your own costs. I guess, though, that's the selfish nature of humankind and why co-operation between countries and nations looks a long shot.....

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by bobjob

EXCERPT
Comparing the simple installation of low-voltage RV solar panels to those in a house installation is bizarre.

Not really.....
The same, low voltage RV solar panels can, and in many cases, are used on houses. The system I am installing will have mostly 110V and some 12 Volt outlets.
The 5KW solar panel system I mentioned previously was what the 'experts' claimed what I needed for my house.

As for the van, it appears 850 watts will be enough, according to the 'experts'.
Believe it or not, an RV has a lot of the same electrical usages as a house.

[bobjob]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Not really.....
The same, low voltage RV solar panels can, and in many cases, are used on houses. The system I am installing will have mostly 110V and some 12 Volt outlets.The 5KW solar panel system I mentioned previously was what the 'experts' claimed what I needed for my house....

not really, you say.... You're teaching your gran to suck eggs concerning RVs and home electrical systems. I'm experienced on both....

Clambering about on a step to reach the roof of an RV, even that on my highline fifth wheel, is much less demanding than clambering around on the high roof of a two-storey bricks-and-sticks home.

I could fit a couple of panels on the rubber-covered roof with minimal effort and with more of a risk of puncturing its wafer-thin EPDM roof membrane than falling off the step. So you imply that fitting panels on a roof to generate - and store - the recommended 5kW for a domestic installation is not really any harder? Big John you're doing what you usually do, aren't you?

Look, this thread was started to look at the weather and I'm not going to continue this pointless conversation here any further. I'll readily hold it with you and anyone else about the pros and cons of alternative, renewable sources of energy, the impact of customers leaving the grid etc. why a domestic solar installation is way more demanding than a simple RV installation and anything else...... just not here in this thread in this forum.

deal or no deal?

[BigJohn]

When it comes to the weather: I look at ways in which we can make 'simple' contributions to lesson the effect that man contributes to the problem.

For example, a while back, I calculated that if everybody planted 7% more green 'stuff', the CO2 problem would be corrected. That idea did not go over very good with some but it did not stop me from doing it.

[bobjob]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

When it comes to the weather: I look at ways in which we can make 'simple' contributions to lesson the effect that man contributes to the problem.

For example, a while back, I calculated that if everybody planted 7% more green 'stuff', the CO2 problem would be corrected. That idea did not go over very good with some but it did not stop me from doing it.

I am in no position to accept or reject your hypothesis concerning planting - I don't have the data you've used so I can't check if they're right and if your computations are accurate. You might be right and if you're wrong I doubt that a planting increase of 7% per person would do much harm - but I don't have the data to check on that hypothesis either, of course. It's all the realm of supposition and conjecture.

By contrast with your parochial approach, I look globally at the situation of the climate and weather. And I allowed that individual actions would result in beneficial changes albeit unmeasurable ones unless enough individuals took part. It's like peeing in the ocean.

You take a pee and the temperature increase can't be measured even though it can be proven the increase will occur. But get enough individuals to pee in that ocean and with sensitive instrumentation the temperature increase could - theoretically - be observed and measured.

It's all down to scaling, BigJohn. I look at what's observable and perhaps what's measurable globally and - just maybe - at a national level. But even if us Brits in our tiny, over-populated country could make a significant difference to the energy consumption of our teeny-tiny landmass we call home......it wouldn't necessarily have a major - or even significant - impact on global temperature rise.

It needs yous guys too, it needs China too, it needs India too, it needs Africa too, it needs Russia too, it needs every country and every nation that is consuming fuels - most of 'em - to work separately and collectively towards making the necessary change.

You will still be able to do your bit, BJ, but it will need our nations' customarily uncooperative governments and/or agencies to work together at huge scale to sort this one out.

[Rah nam]

I never knew I was wealthy, a wealth of knowledge perhaps or access to it.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

Is there some spiritual meaning here? Or the destruction man caused on mother nature?

The weather simply reflects the consciousness.

So if you believe in the fear based believe, the weather will reflect that fear based consciousness. There has to be allot of negatively focused consciousness, to cause the weather to behave in those ways. And it takes only few and often also just one individual to change the outcome either for others they appreciate or for themselves.
But if you try to "Save" people from the weather/nature, then you also subscribe in their fear based consciousness, and you will also receive that reflection from nature back.

Nature often help us recognize our own alignment with our own source, as a reflection. But secondary, to our emotions, which do that first. So there's all the nature inside of you you will need. And then nature can be endlessly and infinitely and eternally appreciated and enjoyed. Not to accomplish something, or a condition, but simply because you are of that nature and you are at one with your own true nature of being and you enjoy naturally being so and of such aligned being of freedom and empowerment and joy and love and appreciation and clarity and knowing. The weather always nourishes and support us tremendously. Divinely.

And those who complain about the weather, have absolutely no idea/clue about who they are. And they wont be able to explain to you who you are either. Let that be ok. And you will give them the greatest opportunity to learn more about themselves. By allowing yourself to recognize who you truely are.