A Little About Reincarnation

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

"I am that I am"???? You statement reminds me of the differential between the life of the personality and that of the soul. It closes a little at a time until, one day, we achieve mastery. Perhaps this is the "oneness" of lore?

It's interesting that you should use one of my favorite expressions, "I am that I AM". I write it that way because I too differentiate "between the life of the personality and that of the soul", as you put it.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

Human souls are born in innocence, not perfection. They are wholly reliant on all the personalities that they use to gain wisdom. They are not immune to karma both negative and positive. Each gives them new opportunities for advancement. Imagine a human soul born to it's own plane. Now imagine it just staying there for eternity. It would have achieved nothing, grown not at all. Pointless. We are not pawns. We are essential.

Read but sort it all out for yourself. Believe only what is right for you. Be judicious about what you take on faith. Avoid deceptions. Above all be aware of the fact of the fluidity of truth. Over time we become more conscious. This is the quality that brings to us changing perceptions, new truths.

That is a very intriguing point --- "original innocence". What indeed is the process of being "born" ... originally?

[Still_Waters]

I'm just wondering if Bartholomew is well as he hasn't posted in a few days and I look forward to his posts.

Peace !

[bobjob]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I'm just wondering if Bartholomew is well as he hasn't posted in a few days and I look forward to his posts.

Peace !

If James is well......

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

That is a very intriguing point --- "original innocence". What indeed is the process of being "born" ... originally?

Hi I'm James. I only channel Bartholomew. Yes I'm well. I ask forgiveness in advance for that which follows. I can't seem to just answer a question directly. I hope you will find it informative.

The business of "God" is to express. The body of "God" is everything in the created universe. The single primal principle is consciousness. This is not something that results from a set of conditions but an elemental aspect of God which is all pervasive. Even a single sub atomic particle is, to a degree, conscious. And, yes, our planet is conscious as is our sun. These are longer stories.

Eternity is not the endless progression of time. Rather it is a state of being in which there is no time at all. As we ascend through the planes we note that time, as we know it, slows until finally it has stopped. This describes the very highest of the spiritual planes. This is the true eternity of lore. This is the reason we can have free will but God will know (seemingly in advance) how we will choose. It is because in this highest plane God simply "is". "I am".

If we view the expressiveness of "God" as expansiveness then we will better understand the process of God's Will as it is manifest plane by plane until it descends to the lower spiritual planes, those which we think of when we say "heaven". The process of physical plane creation, once begun, has never stopped. New physical matter is coming into existence at all times and old physical matter is being "recycled" back to the heavens too. It is the same with souls. Human souls are also created. They are born to the upper reaches of the mental plane. Here they abide with distinct purpose related to the expressive Will of "God". They, too, continue to be created, born. They are products of higher planes yet about which we know little.

The business of "God" is to express. Virtally everything in creation makes up the actual body of expressiveness of "God". The business of a human soul, as tiny parts of "God" is also to express. Through this activity each soul gains in spiritual stature until it reaches "completion" at which time it "ascends to rejoin the Father", oneness, so to speak. To do this a very long series of physical plane incarnations is required because it is the meeting and overcoming of adversity which adds to the body of wisdom which is what eventually frees us. And in the heavens it is not possible for this to happen. only on the lowest plane can we mix it up, meet adversity. Spiritual growth begins at the lowest plane.

As Earth time passes souls mature... and leave. And as time passes new souls come into existence. So, at any point in Earth time there is a great mix of both junior and advanced souls. Since most of those who have achieved choose to leave the Earth for new adventures in other, post human, settings we find at any time that most souls on Earth are junior or relatively young. Only a few are close to the mastery that some refer to Jesus as being.

Souls are born in an innocent state. They could remain in their spiritual homes and learn but this is not adequate for advancement. One must begin at the beginning. Knowledge is not that which frees us. We need wisdom. We have to come to the lowest planes because only here is it possible to interact with every type of influence... and thus become wise. Then we ascend taking this with us.

This is the reason that, right now, we find on Earth an ever changing scene of both tranquility and conflicts. These seem to change form but never end. If human souls were created only in the beginning of the Earth then by now we all would have achieved and the Earth would not be as it is now. But the process of creation, at all levels both physical and heavenly, continues.

The universe is bound up in the idea of "cause and effect". This affects every bit of matter be it physical of lower spiritual. Both the Earth and we human souls are included. This has been noted and given the name karma by in one tradition. It simply states that for ever action there is an equal and opposite reaction. This datum, though, arguable at times, indicates the mechanism of spiritual advancement, the sea that we find ourselves swimming in. Junior souls are bid "have faith and achieve" and to help them they are admonished, warned of consequences for disobedience. This is essential because young souls have not yet become wise. This method of teaching greatly advances, moves them closer to the goal. We are bid have faith and succeed. Here is a bit more. Faith is very powerful but it is eventually replaced by sure knowledge. Knowledge is powerful but when it is applied it yields wisdom which is of still greater value. Wisdom, that which frees a soul, begins with faith. This is the dynamic which religions bring to the world. And this method of teaching continues because new souls are continually arriving.

Because at any time the Earth is people mostly by junior souls who must be taught the great ones who guide this world have provided us with religions. Each of these has it's own story (which often overlap) but in each we find the requirement for, at one end of the spectrum, vengeance or retribution and at the other, forgiveness. These reflect the boundaries of the aforementioned karmic boundaries. We are bid forgive others. This act has the effect of neutralizing karma thus leading us closer to the completion which frees. This is the reason forgiveness is emphasized as it is within most major religions. The very act requires "will" and moves us closer to "God".

The continual process of new souls being created is the reason we find that religions teaching obedience instead of seeking conscious cooperation with "God". The young souls who have not yet achieved wisdom are taught obedience and reward. We are sometimes taught that human souls are created in perfection but then did something wrong and are now required to make up for it so that we can re attain our original state. This message adds to the need for obedience. Truth is fluid. As we experience and gain wisdom we reach higher (send our minds higher into the spiritual worlds) and our view changes.

Creation and return is the dynamic which is universal. In the lower worlds all is born only to attain and pass back to the source. It is the same for the lower heavens (which, like the physical universe) are also products of the initial creative impulse (big bang). And human souls are parts of the lower heavens. We are also subject to the dynamic of livingness.

There is much more to this story of course. Here is a sample. As we age and mature through many, many lifetimes we find that we eventually become guides to other, young, souls who are far behind us in experience. It is this which has given rise to the tradition of guides or guardian angles. Those folks are only human souls like us except they are more advanced. Many of us, as souls, are also serving as guides even though we have not yet finished our cycles.

Lastly there is in existence a great assemblage of souls near to the Earth whose duties include working with the planet and all who ride upon it so that our world can stay suitable for human life. This is a vast topic of great significance. The work of this "hierarchy of souls" is the primary reason our planet is so different from others in our solar system. As souls achieve and are freed from the cycle of reincarnating some of them choose to stay and work within this group, while other leave. One such soul, one who long ago completed the cycle, is the head of the hierarchy. His title is World Teacher. He is know on Earth to differing groups by names which vary with culture. The Christians know Him as Jesus. "Christ" is the title (in Greek Christos) which means (something like) "anointed one". The Christ is the head of the Earth's spiritual hierarchy.

There is another aspect to existence which is the idea of individuality. Souls are born to groups of kindred souls. They must learn to identify as individuals because this is necessary to live as a human being on Earth. We are all individuals here because this is a world of "separated life". The Earth and it's lower heavens are worlds of "duality". This is the reason we find that our biological bodies have attributes of both sexes. The separation is only temporary though. But as souls age they revert to the more natural group form. When they leave the Earth behind they do so in groups with others. They no longer have a need to express as individual souls. This is, from our standpoint, the culmination of ascension.

Please forgive this rather long piece. It is very hard to speak on a topic without out describing what is seen.... and it is a landscape which is filled with wonders, rushing by at high speed.

Thanks for reading. I hope you question is answered somewhere in the above.

James

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

That is a very intriguing point --- "original innocence". What indeed is the process of being "born" ... originally?

To answer this question satisfactorily one must visualize, in correspondent terms, the whole of "the" spiritual life. Here I refer to our local system with the spiritual sun at it's center. Yes this is that which coincides with our physical star. This is the creative source for our "system" (solar system).

Such a topic as this reaches the usual boundaries of knowledge. However if we again use the law of correspondences and think of the charkras of our bodies and visualize them connecting our spiritual selves, via the chakras of the Earth, to the spiritual "life" of the planet then visualize the chakras of the solar system (the Earth is the solar plexus) we perhaps can see that we, each of us, receives our "livingness, both physical and spiritual" through these. But from where?

There is a larger body of manifestation as well. Our solar system is one of a group of others which constitutes a body of expressiveness not unlike those below. This galactic constellation of stars, too, has chakras. Now let's look a bit higher and see that there are other constellations. These we seem to know somewhat about through our study of astrology. To understand more of this grand association let's allow, for a moment, that superior to even these there is another life. Let's say that it is more to do with our galaxy as a whole. Our knowledge is limited here. Just for a moment let's visualize our galaxy. See it as another, grander in scope, body of manifestation (of an even greater groups of beings). It too has chakras. But can we set aside the Sanskrit word and know these through their function? Through this pattern of connectors all life is "as one". More...

In astrology we find that rays of influence are sent out from groups of stars which then have an effect on every lesser life that they encounter. These forces travel via spiritual chakras that some refer to as being heavenly pathways. And none of this is by chance. An assembly of great ones is at work.

Here is a point that is seldom acknowledged. When a new babe takes it's first breath of air it's subtle (ethereal body) also begins the Earthly life. As the physical baby breathes in and out the baby's ethereal body does likewise. And we ask about the date and time of birth. Why? So that we can make a determination of exactly what rays of force were apparent at that moment. The first energetic (spiritual) life of the baby is thus defined. Later the personality of the new person will be made of a combination of genetics, social conditioning and these other spiritual qualities. This is the way Earthly astrology works. This is the logic behind it. And if we consider that this is all true then we can also easily visualize and allow for all the greater lives which are connected making up the whole of creation (creation being both physical and spiritual). For as long as the physical body lives it breathes. For as long as our ethereal body lives it, too, breathes. The first breathes air. The second conditioning ethereal matter. Our auras are made of ethereal matter. They define our spiritual selves. And as our spiritual bodies breathe our auras fluctuate in harmony with what is perceived. This effect is in two directions, from above and from below. This is that which defines the importance of the personality and is the means of transferring the good works of the man or woman to the higher realms. Do we find a new meaning in this regarding the religious admonishments for sin and repentance? We are thus raised up through divine forgiveness. It's not magic. This is the way it works.

You ask about the process of soul birthing. In general terms (because I, Bartholomew, am now at the edge of my awareness and must rely on my own intuition, say that the flow of higher creative forces is carried, stepping down (like an electrical transformer) as it travels along, lower and less refined, slower, with time quickening too, through the pathways which connect until a portion of the "source" has arrived at our solar system via it's crown chakra, our sun. From here these primordial bits of high spiritual matter travel to the Earth system where they, having "slowed" sufficiently are compatible with the requirements of human life on this planet.

Our souls, then, are small pieces of "God" which are prepared and directed from the ultimate source to our world. Like all the other lives that exist they have their appointed degree. And like all the others which are either lesser or greater they are on the move continually... And now the process continues with this steady stream of energy from "God" beginning their long journeys back to the source (which from our standpoint, is quite unknowable). Human souls, when "born" to the Earth, are newly separated, individualized, from the mass which is their "womb". Souls reside on and are made of mental plane matter. Later when souls near completion and begin the final ascension they reform into groups so that they can leave. This is the process.

Consider the above and allow that the business of deity is to express. Expressing is what a god does. The source spiritual plane is without form and is thus timeless. Timelessness is the true definition of "eternity". No flow of time at all. In this sense it is correct to say we are eternal beings.

The process of being born is thus: Groups of newly defined soul "material" travels from the sun to the Earth, along spiritual pathways defined by chakras where they slow again and take up residence in the higher reaches of our planetary mental plane. Here they also have connections to the higher of the Earth's heavens. But these are now available for further definition as human souls, in waiting so to speak. They are pure innocence.

Why all the above? Again the business of deity is expressiveness. The body of manifestation of the ultimate creative source is the total of all the spiritual and physical planes in existence. It is, in reality, "impure". The long process of spiritual growth at all levels is to raise up to perfection that which has been created. This mighty idea is the basis of everything that we can imagine.

Just a last comment about the sun having a spiritual center which is the body of manifestation of a great spiritual being. This has long been believed by mystics. Indeed the tradition of a sun god derives from this. Later when Christianity began it continued in a sense. Do we not refer to Jesus as being the Son (sun) of "God"? These kinds of hierarchial arrangements are seen in our human inclination for maintaining "royalty" in nations which is a lower correspondence of the spiritual worlds.

The process of creation is nothing less than the slowing of spiritual matter so that it becomes a lesser quality. This continues until, lastly, we find physical matter. The process of ascension is the reverse.

Thanks for reading.... Accept none of this unless you find yourself to be in agreement.

[linen53]

Some very good thoughts James and Bart. It kind of saddens me that the plan for each of us is so finite. To be born into individuality (free to express) and to lose that when we have finally achieved perfection through wisdom. It seems such a loss. But that is my finite mind trying to wrap around an idea soaked in divine inspiration. Most would call it my ego (I hate that word), I'd like to call it the Me.

Maybe that is why the Creator didn't intend us to know much about what occurs in the higher planes. We will see our struggles as futile. "Why bother, when I won't be around to reap the rewards?"

I knew much of that but you give it more meaning. Depth, purpose, focus and organization. And I thank you for that. Your words are always inspiring.

Another subject. Who is God? You say, God this and God that. No I'm not asking you to define God. I prefer the title Creator or Creating Force because I cannot define who God is (I realize you are only using this definition as a common denominator). I have no point of reference to what God is. I have abandoned the Christian God. I see him (and it is always a him) as riddled with flaws, human made.

I pray. But who do I pray to? I usually just send my prayers "up there" to whomever is listening and (maybe) answering. I wish I had a better idea of who my/our Creator is. It follows me around like a black cloud over my head. This has been going on for years.

I can imagine the Creator, or Creation as a brilliant white light, emitting love, and purity so immaculate I cannot be in it's presence. I can do that. But there is no form. No brain. No mouth to speak. This may seem archaic to want to see some form I can identify with but nonetheless, it is my starting point. My identifying point. The voice in the burning bush just doesn't do much for me.

I watched a video yesterday and in it a bible scholar was talking about the Essene. I wasn't aware they worshiped many deities. Now believe it or not this makes more sense to me! Not that they are different manifestations of God. But off-shoots of It. But they at least have a form I can identify with.

And there you have it. I have finally full circle in my rattling on and on. I come to the It of this God, this Creator everyone speaks of. I consider God to be It. I just realized that for the first time!

Without form, without definition. It's not even a noun, but rather than a pronoun. Merriam Webster says it's a reference to a lifeless thing, a plant, a person or animal whose sex is unknown or disregarded, a group of individuals or things, or an abstract entity.

So what say you James? You talk about God throughout your dialogue but every time I pass by it in reading I stumble.

Originally Posted by linen53

Some very good thoughts James and Bart. It kind of saddens me that the plan for each of us is so finite. To be born into individuality (free to express) and to lose that when we have finally achieved perfection through wisdom. It seems such a loss. But that is my finite mind trying to wrap around an idea soaked in divine inspiration. Most would call it my ego (I hate that word), I'd like to call it the Me.

Maybe that is why the Creator didn't intend us to know much about what occurs in the higher planes. We will see our struggles as futile. "Why bother, when I won't be around to reap the rewards?"

I knew much of that but you give it more meaning. Depth, purpose, focus and organization. And I thank you for that. Your words are always inspiring.

Those who consider the ego to be the personality might say we are egocentric. One thing is for sure. We have trouble stepping away, even for a moment, from ourselves. So... can it be a surprise that we reflect wistfully, even sadly, at the idea of leaving it all behind? When we say "finite or infinite" can't we see that it is only the differential of consciousness that is being expressed?

Originally Posted by linen53

Another subject. Who is God? You say, God this and God that. No I'm not asking you to define God. I prefer the title Creator or Creating Force because I cannot define who God is (I realize you are only using this definition as a common denominator). I have no point of reference to what God is. I have abandoned the Christian God. I see him (and it is always a him) as riddled with flaws, human made.

Our identification as individualized beings is so very strong that we tend to use the same standard when thinking about the source of it all. So we say god this or god that. Christians will refer to god being the father. This brings us into our comfort zones I think. Oh yes it is certainly true that the source can be called "father" but it was coined by a fellow of ours, another human being.

We humans have to move about in a world with limitations. We all know this. But let's apply it to our minds as well. Again the variable that makes all the difference is consciousness. It's a universal principle but it is not universally applied. We earn more through personal effort. At a certain point this changes and now we earn more through group effort. And at the top? We are not yet conscious enough to be able to define God or the source. But we know one thing. One of the greatest revelations yet voiced is that every bit of matter both spiritual and physical in all of the universes put together, is the sum total of God's body. As I write this I think of how ridiculous it sounds. It this is true then clearly God is limited in some way. Then I remember that the view changes as we become more conscious. I am content.

In my private space god is the great assemblage of minds whose incessant activity "is" the manifested universe. And when I say universe I mean all of the spiritual realms down to and including the physical. I can look at perceptions objectively. I know full well that the human brain that writes this is of limited scope because it is designed to function in the lower worlds only. I also know that it is capable of reaching higher occasionally but that anything that it brings back will necessarily be less than what was sensed. Our ability to intuit is tempered by the pocess of "stepping down". Why? Because no matter the quality of the connection it must pass through a human brain as it is being recorded on paper. When I speak of god I am merely referring to what can only be perceived as being both our source and destination.

Originally Posted by linen53

I pray. But who do I pray to? I usually just send my prayers "up there" to whomever is listening and (maybe) answering. I wish I had a better idea of who my/our Creator is. It follows me around like a black cloud over my head. This has been going on for years.

I can imagine the Creator, or Creation as a brilliant white light, emitting love, and purity so immaculate I cannot be in it's presence. I can do that. But there is no form. No brain. No mouth to speak. This may seem archaic to want to see some form I can identify with but nonetheless, it is my starting point. My identifying point. The voice in the burning bush just doesn't do much for me.

I watched a video yesterday and in it a bible scholar was talking about the Essene. I wasn't aware they worshiped many deities. Now believe it or not this makes more sense to me! Not that they are different manifestations of God. But off-shoots of It. But they at least have a form I can identify with.

There are some things that we can depend on when considering truth. One of them is that life is continually moving with purpose. Another is that creation is not something that happened once and then stopped. No. Creation is continuous. And it is so on every plane. And it is a two way phenomena as well. What is created eventually returns to it's source. Here is another idea. Creation takes place on every plane, not just on the physical. And, in every case, that which is created is first visualized as it is in high plane matter. Then it descends to a lower plane where it becomes substantive. This process is the secret of the source of what we call the big bang. The Earth's astral plane is filled to overflowing with all the thoughts ever considered in history, all sorted and categorized, each in it's place. We thus sometimes think of another person's thought and say: "that's funny, I was just thinking about that and now here you are mentioning it too".

I, too, visualize the source as a great, glowing, benevolent, wonderful light in the sky. I find comfort in knowing that for practical purposes the great being that coincides with and is embodied in the spiritual center of our star is God. No need for me to think in different terms until the time comes that my group of souls leaves this system.

Stepping away from personality based thinking is not easy. We should not attempt it unless we are disciplined. The body of knowledge that requires a non personal stance is usually protected and for good reason.
The Essenes? They wanted to live "as though". The purification rituals were for that reason. There is something very important to say here. What is the business of the mystic? There is the outward life as defined by men. There is the inward life too. This one is the more difficult. Here is an idea to consider. As we sit quietly in contemplation our minds are otherwise engaged. Where most of the world is busy with desire plane energies we are working to mitigate, to manage, some of these. The mystic in quiet pose has left his or her "self" behind for a time and is now rejoined with the collective mind. OK but what does this collective mind do? It works to manage the areas in the Earth's astral and mental planes where most human activity is found. This kind of work can be best done when we realize that our personalities get in the way. So.... we leave them behind for awhile and join our fellows in group formation. The group has much more power than any single person. It is capable of achieving much more. This sort of thing is the work of the true aspirant. It was what the Essenes were all about.

Do we worship entities? Are there more than one? When we pray what we are really doing is sending thoughts to our souls. This is the magical secret that is so very elegant but seldom mentioned. Consider the chain of command in the military. Our souls are at the other ends of our silver cords. So... when we send thoughts "upward" they go there. Are prayers answered? Yes. When we ask for guidance in this manner our souls and their guides take note. They always respond. A prayer, a supplication, to God is treated the same way. But there is more. What happens during prayer also depends on the spiritual positioning of the soul, it's state in growth. The same is true of our attempts to create. How capable are we as souls? And, as we ascend, we find that, yes, there are many that we might call deities. The mystic will know of the great one who is embodied, finds expressiveness, through some heavenly form. Our solar system is filled with spiritual life. If this were not the case our world would be a barren rock and we, our souls, would be elsewhere. So yes, there are deities that are often cited by mystics but not for the reasons that we might think. Do we pray to god or do we seek to cooperative with divine purpose? This question reveals much and was central to the Essene community.

Originally Posted by linen53

And there you have it. I have finally full circle in my rattling on and on. I come to the It of this God, this Creator everyone speaks of. I consider God to be It. I just realized that for the first time!

Without form, without definition. It's not even a noun, but rather than a pronoun. Merriam Webster says it's a reference to a lifeless thing, a plant, a person or animal whose sex is unknown or disregarded, a group of individuals or things, or an abstract entity.

So what say you James? You talk about God throughout your dialogue but every time I pass by it in reading I stumble.

It takes courage to leave the world of the ordinary and walk towards the unknown. This is what humans do though and it is the reason the wise have given us religions. And.... if religions are of little value as some say why do they endure? Part of the reason is related to creation. New human souls are arriving on Earth all the time. These need the disciplined approach that religions provide. I think of these as being interfaces between the Earth and the heavens. They help us to manage what is sensed in ways that promote the attitudes which, later, will free us. And along the way we discover the fluidity of truth. This, when realized, denotes a high achievement. But a curious thing happens too. Those who have achieved tend to remain silent about it. Knowledge without wisdom is often destructive. This is the reason.

In a setting such as this forum where there are few beginners, more can be spoken of. Search the threads and find trends, minds all going in the same directions. Then find the group which suits. It is thus OK for us to speak of things here that we wouldn't mention in church or in everyday conversation. In a group of souls such as is found here (and this forum is a distinct group)the process of self sorting takes place.

Don't try to throw away the personality. It is essential to us. What the average human being does while incarnated cannot be done on any spiritual plane. We have a unique ability. Here, at the bottom of the ladder, we have to ability to make a difference where it counts. The business of impermanent personalities can wait.

Here is a last thought. When we reform into groups of souls we are transforming in an essential way. Our present personalities fade but a new, much more capable one appears. Master souls use the aspect of individuality only when dealing with we humans on Earth. On their own plane they have made the transition to the higher life. But this one, too, has a personality of sorts. Nothing is ever lost and if we need a reason for the sadness let it be that we do not yet have sufficient consciousness. Trust. All is well.

This post is from James. Forgive any typos.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

Hi I'm James. I only channel Bartholomew. Yes I'm well. I ask forgiveness in advance for that which follows. I can't seem to just answer a question directly. I hope you will find it informative.

The business of "God" is to express. The body of "God" is everything in the created universe. The single primal principle is consciousness. This is not something that results from a set of conditions but an elemental aspect of God which is all pervasive. Even a single sub atomic particle is, to a degree, conscious. And, yes, our planet is conscious as is our sun. These are longer stories.

Eternity is not the endless progression of time. Rather it is a state of being in which there is no time at all. As we ascend through the planes we note that time, as we know it, slows until finally it has stopped. This describes the very highest of the spiritual planes. This is the true eternity of lore. This is the reason we can have free will but God will know (seemingly in advance) how we will choose. It is because in this highest plane God simply "is". "I am".

If we view the expressiveness of "God" as expansiveness then we will better understand the process of God's Will as it is manifest plane by plane until it descends to the lower spiritual planes, those which we think of when we say "heaven". The process of physical plane creation, once begun, has never stopped. New physical matter is coming into existence at all times and old physical matter is being "recycled" back to the heavens too. It is the same with souls. Human souls are also created. They are born to the upper reaches of the mental plane. Here they abide with distinct purpose related to the expressive Will of "God". They, too, continue to be created, born. They are products of higher planes yet about which we know little.

The business of "God" is to express. Virtally everything in creation makes up the actual body of expressiveness of "God". The business of a human soul, as tiny parts of "God" is also to express. Through this activity each soul gains in spiritual stature until it reaches "completion" at which time it "ascends to rejoin the Father", oneness, so to speak. To do this a very long series of physical plane incarnations is required because it is the meeting and overcoming of adversity which adds to the body of wisdom which is what eventually frees us. And in the heavens it is not possible for this to happen. only on the lowest plane can we mix it up, meet adversity. Spiritual growth begins at the lowest plane.

As Earth time passes souls mature... and leave. And as time passes new souls come into existence. So, at any point in Earth time there is a great mix of both junior and advanced souls. Since most of those who have achieved choose to leave the Earth for new adventures in other, post human, settings we find at any time that most souls on Earth are junior or relatively young. Only a few are close to the mastery that some refer to Jesus as being.

Souls are born in an innocent state. They could remain in their spiritual homes and learn but this is not adequate for advancement. One must begin at the beginning. Knowledge is not that which frees us. We need wisdom. We have to come to the lowest planes because only here is it possible to interact with every type of influence... and thus become wise. Then we ascend taking this with us.

This is the reason that, right now, we find on Earth an ever changing scene of both tranquility and conflicts. These seem to change form but never end. If human souls were created only in the beginning of the Earth then by now we all would have achieved and the Earth would not be as it is now. But the process of creation, at all levels both physical and heavenly, continues.

The universe is bound up in the idea of "cause and effect". This affects every bit of matter be it physical of lower spiritual. Both the Earth and we human souls are included. This has been noted and given the name karma by in one tradition. It simply states that for ever action there is an equal and opposite reaction. This datum, though, arguable at times, indicates the mechanism of spiritual advancement, the sea that we find ourselves swimming in. Junior souls are bid "have faith and achieve" and to help them they are admonished, warned of consequences for disobedience. This is essential because young souls have not yet become wise. This method of teaching greatly advances, moves them closer to the goal. We are bid have faith and succeed. Here is a bit more. Faith is very powerful but it is eventually replaced by sure knowledge. Knowledge is powerful but when it is applied it yields wisdom which is of still greater value. Wisdom, that which frees a soul, begins with faith. This is the dynamic which religions bring to the world. And this method of teaching continues because new souls are continually arriving.

Because at any time the Earth is people mostly by junior souls who must be taught the great ones who guide this world have provided us with religions. Each of these has it's own story (which often overlap) but in each we find the requirement for, at one end of the spectrum, vengeance or retribution and at the other, forgiveness. These reflect the boundaries of the aforementioned karmic boundaries. We are bid forgive others. This act has the effect of neutralizing karma thus leading us closer to the completion which frees. This is the reason forgiveness is emphasized as it is within most major religions. The very act requires "will" and moves us closer to "God".

The continual process of new souls being created is the reason we find that religions teaching obedience instead of seeking conscious cooperation with "God". The young souls who have not yet achieved wisdom are taught obedience and reward. We are sometimes taught that human souls are created in perfection but then did something wrong and are now required to make up for it so that we can re attain our original state. This message adds to the need for obedience. Truth is fluid. As we experience and gain wisdom we reach higher (send our minds higher into the spiritual worlds) and our view changes.

Creation and return is the dynamic which is universal. In the lower worlds all is born only to attain and pass back to the source. It is the same for the lower heavens (which, like the physical universe) are also products of the initial creative impulse (big bang). And human souls are parts of the lower heavens. We are also subject to the dynamic of livingness.

There is much more to this story of course. Here is a sample. As we age and mature through many, many lifetimes we find that we eventually become guides to other, young, souls who are far behind us in experience. It is this which has given rise to the tradition of guides or guardian angles. Those folks are only human souls like us except they are more advanced. Many of us, as souls, are also serving as guides even though we have not yet finished our cycles.

Lastly there is in existence a great assemblage of souls near to the Earth whose duties include working with the planet and all who ride upon it so that our world can stay suitable for human life. This is a vast topic of great significance. The work of this "hierarchy of souls" is the primary reason our planet is so different from others in our solar system. As souls achieve and are freed from the cycle of reincarnating some of them choose to stay and work within this group, while other leave. One such soul, one who long ago completed the cycle, is the head of the hierarchy. His title is World Teacher. He is know on Earth to differing groups by names which vary with culture. The Christians know Him as Jesus. "Christ" is the title (in Greek Christos) which means (something like) "anointed one". The Christ is the head of the Earth's spiritual hierarchy.

There is another aspect to existence which is the idea of individuality. Souls are born to groups of kindred souls. They must learn to identify as individuals because this is necessary to live as a human being on Earth. We are all individuals here because this is a world of "separated life". The Earth and it's lower heavens are worlds of "duality". This is the reason we find that our biological bodies have attributes of both sexes. The separation is only temporary though. But as souls age they revert to the more natural group form. When they leave the Earth behind they do so in groups with others. They no longer have a need to express as individual souls. This is, from our standpoint, the culmination of ascension.

Please forgive this rather long piece. It is very hard to speak on a topic without out describing what is seen.... and it is a landscape which is filled with wonders, rushing by at high speed.

Thanks for reading. I hope you question is answered somewhere in the above.

James

I loved reading your response and we are essentially on the same page regarding virtually everything. You have answered my question not only by what you wrote but also by what is implied in what you wrote. I am now in the process of sharing this with some one who will appreciate it as we have been having discussions of a similar nature and this will reinforce.

While some of our terminology may be different, our essential understanding of the Reality is virtually the same. My teacher often talked about "time within time within time" and the "White Brotherhood".

While I am fully aware that "one shoe does not fit all", I am curious what direction you were given personally regarding how best to proceed to the wisdom of which you spoke.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

When I speak of god I am merely referring to what can only be perceived as being both our source and destination.

That is often how I too describe "God" in a receptive setting - "that from which all emerges and to which all returns" (the "Alpha and the Omega").

Originally Posted by bartholomew

Stepping away from personality based thinking is not easy. We should not attempt it unless we are disciplined. The body of knowledge that requires a non personal stance is usually protected and for good reason.
The Essenes? They wanted to live "as though". The purification rituals were for that reason.

The mystic in quiet pose has left his or her "self" behind for a time and is now rejoined with the collective mind.

My pathless path has focused on purification and one of my favorite Biblical passages is "Blessed are the pure of heart for they shall see God (consciousness)".

As you duly noted, one abides in "quiet pose" ("Be still and know that I AM God") when one "has left his or her 'self' behind for a time and is now rejoined with the collective mind".

The Zen Master Seung Sahn once said that when you're thinking and I'm thinking, our minds are different. However, when one cuts off thinking ("quiet pose"), one's mind is the same as any other mind --- Christ consciousness, God consciousness, Buddha nature, original mind, .... or whatever one chooses to call it.



P.S. I am looking at the times that you post here and wondering if you would ever be interested in connecting with people here in the chat room when you are online to post. If the system reports times accurately, your last two posts were at 12:59 PM (NY time) and 9:35 PM (NY time). It would be wonderful to chat with you interactively here when you are online.