the ethics and morality of intentional misrepresentation

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Interesting question.
Could we say in the broadest possible terms, that God is "unethical" because the entire Cosmic physical, the Creation is a stupendous deception? But was it intentional or unintentional? Does an all-conscious Being do anything unintentionally?

~ J

If 'Creation is a stupendous deception', then how did we come about?

[Shivani Devi]

Here is a beauty! I just thought I would share this.

Each year, I receive an automated quote for my car insurance. For the past ten years, it has been $400 per year and this year it was no different...except for the fact I have another car now, so I had to update those details with the insurance company...I was in for a very rude shock.

I had the quote in front of me that I received a month ago for my old car...it said total amount payable: $400 (as per usual).

I rang the insurance company to send me out a new policy for the same amount, just with a different registration number and they said: "sorry, no can do"...for you see, 6 months ago, I lost 2 demerit points on my driving license (2 out of 12...I still have 10 demerit points left) for forgetting to put my driving glasses on, which was specified on my license, so I was pulled over and I copped a $350 fine and lost 2 demerit points for "failing to comply with the conditions of my license"...and the bloody insurance company knew because they were able to pull my driving records...

They told me that the quote I received was printed in error and that the $400 quote ONLY applied to what they call "good drivers" who have zero demerit points...they told me that I would need to add another $150 onto that because I have lost 2 demerit points..so, it brings it up to $550 instead.

With that, I said "okay, if that is the case, can you please send me an updated policy for $550 then?"

With that, they said "not so fast...we also notice that you don't have any other policies with us...no comprehensive insurance...no home and contents...that $550 is for "bad drivers" who also have an existing policy with us...let me explain how this works...
$400 is for "good drivers" who have other policies with us.
$550 is for "good drivers" who don't have other policies with us or "bad drivers" who do.
$650 is for "bad drivers" who don't have any other policies with us...and that is you...and that is how much your car insurance is going to cost this year".
I simply said "thanks, but this year, I will be shopping around for a cheaper quote after being with you for the past ten years.."

Realizing full well that if I still had the same old car, I would have got away with paying the $400 as I have done for every year prior to this.

How's THAT for "misrepresentation"?

^Lucky your with AAMI?

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by weareunity

Hello all.
As per thread title.

Wondering how intententional misrepresentation may be considered when looked at in terms of ethics and morality?

May not have posed the question very well--hope sufficient to understand however. Apologies if not--will try to clarify if necessary.

petex

Any intentional misrepresentation done do cause undue harm to others or cause undue material gains at the expense of others is wrong . Spiritually it may be called sin .

At times such misrepresentation may be organized and even collective and people may even not be knowing it (in that case it becomes unintentional reducing the gravity of the wrong /sin) . But that does not absolve one of responsibility of such misrepresentation.

[enterhere]

An example may be Big Tobacco luring millions of people into addiction through misrepresentation through the media. US Government did virtually nothing for years because of Big Tobacco political and social contributions.

Intentional misrepresentation on the human plane,by those who are misguided and still asleep.

Accept the things you can change,accept the things you can't change and the wisdom to know the difference.

Occupy the mind with what's unethical and immoral,keeps the mind in the loop.
ntentional misrepresentation by the creator;

Plant a seed into this corrupt system.

Program,brain wash and install false beliefs,fear and trauma etc.

Lures-addictions,habits,material possessions,money,attachments etc.

Health scare/Mid life crisis,

Find the faith or not?

Rinse and repeat.

Evolve.
Many years ago there was an African American preacher, Rev. Ike whose sermons consisted of increasing material wealth simply by asking God. I once considered this action as ludicrous, however, Karma reflects how one lives.

Some people are more adapt than others to lying and misrepresentation, however, I do not feel that God misrepresents Himself. Perhaps God is misrepresented by man.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by weareunity

Hello all.

How shall we consider those representations which are constructed as beliefs?--beliefs which we may not feel able to share?

Shall we consider them falsehoods contradicting what we ourselves consider to be true?

Or with larger hearts might we come to see beliefs as being born in the timeless cradle of attempts to explain and understand our unknown?

And if we are able and prepared to understand in such a manner, do we come close to seeing all as one?

petex

Yes at times , there have been organized and intentional misrepresentation from spiritual community . And that's certainly immoral and unacceptable . But God who is above all such spiritual people does not spare any such intentional misrepresentation. You can see this in the downfall of religions.

It is the same way like dishonesty in politics /business /professions . Nowhere people like to face it(intentional misrepresentation ) but people don't hesitate to do it . Those too are not spared .

But due to prevalent misrepresentation (in anywhere including spirituality ) we must not stop living (meaning stop having faithful beliefs) . We must use our intellect and faith in full measure to segregate wrong ones from right ones . We must stay away from such intentional misrepresentation and also try to help ascertain facts to others meaningfully wherever possible and practical.

People like absolutes. People like rules. People like not having to think.

You can often get by without having to think - Dogma and rigid dogmatic thinking are very popular - but eventually sticking to an inappropriate rule will deliver a bad result. There is no substitute for applying intelligence and awareness in any situation, even if the bare minimum to give right understanding, and therefore right action.

So many people go through life believing that any 'intentional misrepresentation' is bad, regardless of the situation or circumstance, and almost always don't follow their own beliefs in that regard, sooner or later.

But many people dislike taking responsibility for their own actions, preferring to say "I was just following orders" or "That's the rules". What they really mean is "I'd rather hurt you than risk hurting me".

Intentional misrepresentation is ethical or unethical depending on the purpose. If a salesman lies to you to make a sale, that is tantamount to theft, and unethical. If a friend tricks you for your own good, for example taking you to lunch just to get you out of your house while all your friends ready a surprise birthday party, well then that is something else isn't it? But it requires you to THINK about it. Yes, he intentionally misrepresented the reason for the lunch - and it is an act of love.

And that's the truth.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by enterhere

An example may be Big Tobacco luring millions of people into addiction through misrepresentation through the media. US Government did virtually nothing for years because of Big Tobacco political and social contributions.

Intentional misrepresentation on the human plane,by those who are misguided and still asleep.

Accept the things you can change,accept the things you can't change and the wisdom to know the difference.

Occupy the mind with what's unethical and immoral,keeps the mind in the loop.
ntentional misrepresentation by the creator;

Plant a seed into this corrupt system.

Program,brain wash and install false beliefs,fear and trauma etc.

Lures-addictions,habits,material possessions,money,attachments etc.

Health scare/Mid life crisis,

Find the faith or not?

Rinse and repeat.

Evolve.
Many years ago there was an African American preacher, Rev. Ike whose sermons consisted of increasing material wealth simply by asking God. I once considered this action as ludicrous, however, Karma reflects how one lives.

Some people are more adapt than others to lying and misrepresentation, however, I do not feel that God misrepresents Himself. Perhaps God is misrepresented by man.

As for Tobacco:

I have somewhere in my notes a newspaper article printed in 1877. The news was fully aware that some of the ingredients in cigarettes are harmful...... but there is nothing the manufacturers could do. It was the consumers that insisted on such ingredients. One of the main reasons for some of the ingredients was consumers did not like to have to relight over and over again.

[weareunity]

Hello all.
As many of us have mentioned in one form or another, lots of "ifs" and "buts" and " maybe" arise when considering the topic.

Perhaps a number of such considerations can be gathered together as being concerned with "intent". --analysing/understanding the purpose of intentional misrepresentation.

But that is just one step, --for having formed some opinion concerning the probable/possible purpose in a particular case, it then becomes necessary--if there is the desire to do so-- to make further judgement as to what extent, if any, that purpose is justified--and to whom.

Then there arise further questions such as--is the representation simply the matter of the presentation of a differing opinion presented as fact?--or a differing belief presented as fact?--or the best available current understanding presented as absolute? etc.etc.

Marshland indeed. -but a landscape that we so need to understand and navigate because it is a landscape which has often swallowed us up as a species and sacrificed many to divisions, self seeking ambitions, self seeking ambitions sometimes flying the false flag of common concern, wars, etc.

petex

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by weareunity

Hello all.
As many of us have mentioned in one form or another, lots of "ifs" and "buts" and " maybe" arise when considering the topic.

Perhaps a number of such considerations can be gathered together as being concerned with "intent". --analysing/understanding the purpose of intentional misrepresentation.

But that is just one step, --for having formed some opinion concerning the probable/possible purpose in a particular case, it then becomes necessary--if there is the desire to do so-- to make further judgement as to what extent, if any, that purpose is justified--and to whom.

Then there arise further questions such as--is the representation simply the matter of the presentation of a differing opinion presented as fact?--or a differing belief presented as fact?--or the best available current understanding presented as absolute? etc.etc.

Marshland indeed. -but a landscape that we so need to understand and navigate because it is a landscape which has often swallowed us up as a species and sacrificed many to divisions, self seeking ambitions, self seeking ambitions sometimes flying the false flag of common concern, wars, etc.

petex

The question is really tough in the sense that life comes up with umpteen possibilities and combinations which may be difficult to describe . All u can have a framework as aforesaid and there is ample scope for using intelligence and faith in understanding this .

Adequate disclosure of facts /personal interests , disclaimer , law compliance, ethical conformity , trade conventions, prior research , avoiding ignorance - are some of the keywords that can guide in such matters .