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  #421  
Old 20-09-2020, 02:41 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janielee
Buddhist teachers are full of Light and are joyous in their own right.

JL




Well, there is drunkeness, sexual misconduct and all nature of depravity as well, so I can't merit that generalisation.
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  #422  
Old 20-09-2020, 03:31 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by Phaelyn
That was a brilliant insightful post to me. I'd say as good as Krishnamurti or Tolle or Mooji. It's amazing these people have or had gotten rich from teaching such things. Made a living or a "career" from being spiritual teachers. Some still are teaching as a job, like Tolle or Mooji, some like Krishnamurti have died.


I think Mooji is involved in morally questionable things and seems to revel in his God-like status, I just don't trust him. Tolle seems a reasonable character - a bit of an Oprah styles sensationalist for my tastes - but seems to hold a high enough integrity. J. krishnamurti is legendary. I'm a big fan.


Quote:
I'd not say all of those "teachers" teachings are great though. Sometimes their "lectures" are good and sometimes not so good, some I've seen were terrible. One can become rich with one book, like Tolle's book.


Yea, it kinda strange how spiritualism has been commercialised, and you can even buy a 'sound' from a Transendental Meditation school for a few hundred bucks . My school is non-profit and teachers and trustees have no way of extracting money from the organisation at all. That would contradict the principles of dana, to give expecting nothing in return. Having that background, I see it as improper to sell spiritualism, but this is a capitalist world, so I guess it's just the way it works... However, riches come and go.


Quote:
I've tried saving my posts and trying to turn them into a book, but when I go back and read the posts, yea terrible lol. Some here and there, I go wow very good. That's "it" or expresses it well. But the majority of my posts when I go back and read them are terrible in my opinion.

Then too, my "sin" if I were to name one, is "being too much in my head." So thinking and writing about such things is not a good past time for me. I'd say, when thinking about people who make a living from discussing such things, the important thing is to be "living/being" them, the "teachings." Unless that is well established, the writing will be wonky. That's where I am. I can intellectually get this stuff, but then the living or actualizing such things, is iffy. Sometimes I am "there," sometimes I even have these amazing metaphysical experiences, I've experienced the "source" a few times, but living it day to day, moment to moment to moment, meh... lol. Sometimes good sometimes bad, always feels like so much more to know or understand or "be."


Don't worry about being too much in the head. Creative and critical thinking is excellent, and being a free thinker is dope.


Quote:
Seems to me being a "spiritual teacher" is everyone's destiny. To mentor and guide those who are lacking in some awareness or understanding, but I must be what I want to teach in some very advanced way I think. To where I am not teaching or expressing what I know, but am instead, teaching or expressing what I am. That will take quite a few more incarnations, though I'd prefer to not be on earth to learn and instead, continue on my journey in the non-physical plane.

Teaching these "spiritual" things is odd, because naturally people prefer to only listen to themselves, not others. Also, if someone is not "interested" they get defensive and downright "hostile." Maybe that is part of the journey, to stop listening to others, to tune that out, resist that, then part two, to stop listening to ourselves, "ourselves" there being the habitual conditioned thought stream in our own minds. Then when we are free of our own thoughts, the thoughts of others are fine to us. Do not produce conflict. That's another thing, to let others be fully what they want to be, as long as they are doing no actual harm to others. We learn best from our own experience, not in others telling us "how it is."


I think the problem is we are conditioned to think that statements are right or wrong, and because the known is what we essentially cling to, it's very, very important to be right.
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  #423  
Old 20-09-2020, 04:16 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Gem:
Quote:
I'm just saying the 'me my I mine' is central to reactivity.
So true.
It also doesn’t matter what glorious and grand attributes one designates to that centralized ego stance, it is still the same old, same old ego centeredness.


In addition to the “3 poisons” - Vajrayana talks about the 5 neurotic qualities of this ego-centeredness, which can be transmuted into 5 Widoms.

Equanimity is the Wisdom of Ratna Buddha Family and its neurotic side is Pride and Arrogance.
https://www.himalayanart.org/pages/V...ma/buddha.html
Quote:
The energy of Ratna, when expressed neurotically, is pride and/or arrogance, which can be transmuted into the Wisdom of Equanimity.

Ratna is connected with the element earth and is alive to the quality of solidity or substantiality or ‘richness’.
Taking this from the neurotic angel of samsara or ego, there is the constant anxiety of not being substantial enough; so one tries to build a tower of pride that will obviate all challenge.

In the enlightened energy of the Ratna Yidam, one comes in contact with the quality of inexhaustible richness. Seeing this, pride is spontaneously transmuted into the Wisdom of Equanimity. The Wisdom of Equanimity, imbued with generosity, sees all situations equally as ornaments of basic being.

Ratna is associated with the warmth, full sunshine and lushness of the south. Its color yellow can express either the putrescence of pride or the richness and well-being of gold. The Ratna family symbol is the jewel, which fulfils all wishes.

*

Gem:
Quote:
TBH I have never heard that before in Buddhist philosophy, and I honestly think the proliferation of Media discourse is just people trying to think of something more to say.
This has been repeated in posts many times, I have anyways, but talking about Ratna again - a Ratna neurosis is so wrapped up in pride of its own way and its “richness” that it doesn't want to hear other Buddhist viewpoints - it only desires to obviate them.


Gem
Quote:
You know I'm never going to buy into this idea of a special spiritual desire teehee

You do not have to.

*
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  #424  
Old 20-09-2020, 07:19 AM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
^
How did the story go …
This Aboriginal Elder was teaching a youth, taking him to look at a still bend in a river or something.
The full moon was shining on perfectly still water and the Elder said: “That is how we learn”.

The secret/silent password being “Reflection”
Which is also, how one “deep listens.”


- which points to nonduality.

Visualization helps in quieting and stilling the mind and opening up ones whole being in receptivity – a kind of enchantment – which is where ….. the inspiration and the desire to open up and empty out more comes in.

The visualization practice also helps in de-centralizing the ego/the "me" centre.

In one of the Tibetan Buddhist teachings, I read something like … visualization gives you a picture, an image (of an awareness shift)
– Once you have seen the picture, you’ll recognize the (dimensional) shift (if and when it comes, when everything starts to bathe in light, luminosity).

Mahavairocana or Dainichi Nyorai is the Cosmic Sun Buddha.
Moon does not have light of its own, but it is the purest, the most immaculate reflection of the (Central) Sun.

Ajikan practice:
https://www.aetw.org/jsp_ajikan.htm


Church/Moonlight image:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/76/e6...1c1f674194.jpg

*


Yes the symbol of the moon is mentioned and used in various Buddhist and all other belief systems.


" When you come upon a path
that brings benefit
and happiness to all,
follow this course
as the moon
journeys through the stars.”
Buddha.


The Teaching from The Elder is beautiful.
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  #425  
Old 20-09-2020, 07:22 AM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Well, there is drunkeness, sexual misconduct and all nature of depravity as well, so I can't merit that generalisation.



There certainly is but JL said ' Buddhist '.
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  #426  
Old 20-09-2020, 07:34 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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The poem:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
" When you come upon a path
that brings benefit
and happiness to all,
follow this course
as the moon
journeys through the stars.
Buddha.

The Picture:
https://garywonghc.files.wordpress.c...buddha-120.jpg

*
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  #427  
Old 20-09-2020, 08:30 AM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient


Lovely Picture .


Our Ancestors sitting outside their caves in the evening must have been awestruck by the Moon...
Many Moons have come and gone but it still holds its intrigue.
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  #428  
Old 20-09-2020, 09:56 AM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I think Mooji ...Tolle seems... krishnamurti is ...

I'm not sure how I'd judge various teachers as I don't know them personally. I just contemplate their teachings. Even Buddha and Jesus, I'd have to know them in real life, spend some weeks with them 24/7 to get an idea of the kind of beings they really were. Anybody can spout "truths" and such. A skill really that does not say anything about what they really are. But I know what teachings ring true to me, based on my experience, and those that have a value to me. But as you point out, some very wise teachers turn out to have done very bad things. So intellectual understanding is only a part of the equation. A small part. The highest truths can be captured and twisted up with an ego.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I see it as improper to sell spiritualism, but this is a capitalist world, so I guess it's just the way it works... However, riches come and go.

Money and power and fame. Really the fact such great spiritual writers and teachers have been caught having multiple affairs and such with their students is a good lesson. It means it is a fact one can know truth and not live it. Two different things. One can read and study Krishnamurti or Buddhism or whatever for years, intellectually get the philosophy, understand it well enough to give lectures on it, understand it well enough to start a community and get followers and be the "master" and still be a narcissistic vain egotist. But there will always be people impressed with an act, a robe, with a beard, with a shaved head, with some title, with a guru with an organization and followers. Impressed with someone who talks the talk... unfortunately a lot of people are harmed as these masters don't realty walk the walk... but then there is a lesson in going through that as well.
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  #429  
Old 20-09-2020, 11:16 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaelyn
I'm not sure how I'd judge various teachers as I don't know them personally. I just contemplate their teachings. Even Buddha and Jesus, I'd have to know them in real life, spend some weeks with them 24/7 to get an idea of the kind of beings they really were. Anybody can spout "truths" and such. A skill really that does not say anything about what they really are. But I know what teachings ring true to me, based on my experience, and those that have a value to me. But as you point out, some very wise teachers turn out to have done very bad things. So intellectual understanding is only a part of the equation. A small part. The highest truths can be captured and twisted up with an ego.


Since Mooji and his school has been involved in questionable things, I keep clear of it. I already had an inkling from listening to him talk, and really, he's just a guy. Nothing special. They are al just guys, but some of them are good blokes and some not so good. I like the Buddhist philosophy because it isn't all about enlightenment true self and so on, but also about intent such as good-will, generosity, ethics, conduct and so forth... and because so many so-called teachers are not mature in integrity, people should be much more careful about who they trust and take refuge in. Being highly skeptical is a good idea, but spiritual people frown on skepticism and critique. They think Buddhism is a shiny light, and it can be, but it can be also a dark hole you can easily fall into, but can't get out of. Pema Chodron is a good example of that. I don't know her personally, but I've followed her on-line for years, and to me she seems like a very wholesome girl, so I can't help but feel sorry for her because of the mess she's gotten herself involved with. Those btards roped her in when she was a young, hopeful aspirant, but out of her innocence and hope, she placed her trust in the wrong people and took refuge in the wrong place, and after years docile dedication, ended up regretting her complicity in the the atrocities of her teacher and school. Because these apparent teachers are not special. They are, in the end, just regular people. There are excellent, good, bad and monstrous spiritual leaders, and hence, I don't recommend getting involved with teachers, gurus and that sort of thing. However, if people really want to, then understand, these teachers are regular human beings just like you or me, and they have to earn your trust by demonstrating consistent high standards of integrity, just like anyone else.

The idea that a teacher like Mooji or J Krishnamurti or Buddha or Jayzus (I always say Jesus with an Alabama accent) are somehow elated is a dangerous delusion that can get you into sticky situations such as Chodron's, and much worse. As JK would have put it, the teacher and the student will end up destroying each other. (JK's kinda radical, but I like that).


Quote:
Money and power and fame. Really the fact such great spiritual writers and teachers have been caught having multiple affairs and such with their students is a good lesson.


Very common, unfortunately, and it only creates conditions for harm.

Quote:
It means it is a fact one can know truth and not live it. Two different things. One can read and study Krishnamurti or Buddhism or whatever for years, intellectually get the philosophy, understand it well enough to give lectures on it, understand it well enough to start a community and get followers and be the "master" and still be a narcissistic vain egotist.


Exactly. And there are complete atheists who are insightful enough to live by high ethical standards. At my school, the principles of sila are the foundation for everything else, so integrity has as much importance as the foundations for a house. Hence, our organisational structure is built on a sila framework. How can you have a 'right' (8fold) path without a moral compass? How can you create the conditions in which it is safe to take refuge without the highest standards of morality?

People want to start meditation, but they don't want to stop intoxicants, philandering, gossiping, lying, taking advantage and so forth, but the meditation is based on the highest commitment to integrity because it requires complete truthfulness.

Quote:
But there will always be people impressed with an act, a robe, with a beard, with a shaved head, with some title, with a guru with an organization and followers. Impressed with someone who talks the talk... unfortunately a lot of people are harmed as these masters don't realty walk the walk... but then there is a lesson in going through that as well.


THB, me personally, I find all that costume and status to be ridiculous. Being involved in a school, I have friendly casual relationships with high ranking teachers, and I've been a trustee and sat as chair of the teacher meetings. It's all very high ranking and people on the outside would think I'm 'somebody', but from the inside, we only do it for the benefit of everyone else. It's based on principles of dana (generosity), so no-one in the upper echelons gets a red penny for their services. We serve to benefit others and expect nothing in return, and we are not special or important. Having that background, I don't accept schools where organisational leaders prosper from the kind donations of meditators.


"Whereas, if you begin to examine and discover the basis of the present code of conduct, of the whole structure of morality, then in the very process of discovery of the true cause of what we call morality, you will begin to discern the manner of true individual action, which will then be moral. This action of intelligence, freed from enticement or compulsion, is true morality". JK
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  #430  
Old 20-09-2020, 01:00 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem

... 'you', the one aware, can observe the desire arising in your mind, notice how it agitates the mind, and see it pass by again, but the one aware is constant as opposed to coming and going. The one aware is unaffected, impervious, and beyond all observables.

That is a very standard but effective meditation technique.
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